Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we're talking with Carlos Valdes from Portland Oregon, where he's a therapeutic therapist.

We had a great conversation about the results he's able to get with people faced with recovering from an injury or some mobility issue, and they want to get fit and back out into the world.

You can tell Carlos is very invested in the process and the outcomes his clients get when you hear him describe their big dreams of wanting to climb a mountain, get back to hiking or do the thing they love. It's a very fulfilling way of running a business.

It's a lifestyle business for him. He wants to continue doing what he loves with no plans to retire, so we brainstormed a great after unit strategy for orchestrating lifelong referrals.

You are really going to enjoy this episode, and you can join in as we talk about the psychology of why people refer by heading over to GettingReferrals.com and downloading a free report called 'The secret psychology of why people refer real estate agents and how to be the only one they refer.' And if you're in a business that's not real estate, don't worry, the psychology will apply in exactly the same way, no matter what your business is.

Show Links:
GettingReferrals.com
ProfitActivatorScore.com
BreakthroughDNA.com
EmailMastery.com

Want to be a guest on the show? Simply follow the 'Be a Guest' link on the left & I'll be in touch.

Download a free copy of the Breakthrough DNA book all about the 8 Profit Activators we talk about here on More Cheese, Less Whiskers...

 

Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 193

 

Dean: Carlos?

Carlos: Hello.

Dean: Hello, how are you?

Carlos: Dean, I'm doing great. How you doing?

Dean: I am good. It's a beautiful day here in Florida. Where are you?

Carlos: Oh, I'm all the way in Portland, Oregon, beautiful Northwest.

Dean: Okay, perfect. That's fantastic. My girlfriend's from Portland.

Carlos: Way on the opposite corner of you.

Dean: Yeah, my girlfriend's from Portland. Her whole family is there, so I'm familiar with Portland. Yeah, there in Happy Valley. Great.

Carlos: Oh, that's like 10 minutes from me, literally.

Dean: What a great city. They've got some interesting names for places, because Happy Valley is right next to Clackamas. What a name that is.

Carlos: Yeah, very funny.

Dean: I'm excited to talk to you today.

Carlos: Likewise.

Dean: I also love, Fridays I do podcasts, so it's a nice, I'm in my favorite chair, I've got my remarkable tablet, a bottle of water. I'm ready to talk about marketing.

Carlos: Excellent, me too.

Dean: So, tell me about what you've got going on, Carlos. This will be, I want to hear the background, and then what you'd like to focus on.

Carlos: Perfect, that would be awesome. Let me give you a little bit of background. I'm going to give you the Cliff Note version, like I tell people. I'm originally from Cuba, but I was raised in Puerto Rico, and I came to the States to play baseball of all things. Go figure, right? So I graduated from Purdue, and I worked after I graduated for Providence Health. After a few years, about 11 or 12 years with Providence, I noticed that the patients were a revolving door coming back to see us, because signatories, and was getting more dictated by insurance back then. This was in the mid '80s, '90s. So, I decided to take it upon myself to fix it. I went solo entrepreneur, and I started my own business, and that put myself in label of being a Therapeutic Trainer.

Dean: Okay, I like that.

Carlos: And that was on 2004.

Dean: Did you make up that name, or is Therapeutic Trainer a real designation?

Carlos: It's funny, I made it up and it was kind of a tricky thing, because back then was when 9/11 was happening. So originally it was PTN, and people were like, "That's touching too close to explosives." So I'm like, "Let's change it to Therapeutic Trainers." Now I see some people here and there using the therapeutic component in the fitness industry, in the direction they're heading.

Dean: Okay.

Carlos: So I open my brick and mortar in 2004, and it was great, super busy, because being in the Providence health system as a therapist, I was getting all my clients begin directly referred from either physicians, or colleagues that were like, "Hey, I've got a patient who is getting discharged, and they need a home program follow-up to get back." So it was very successful, and then in 2014, for some reason, I hit a brick, and later I found out that I pretty much drive my referral well. So, for 10 years, I didn't do any marketing at all, besides fundraising, and charities, and whatnot. Of course, that would get my name and my brand, and I would get more clients. I was toying with Dan Kennedy and GKIC a little bit, but not really at all.

And then in 2014, I decided to start this hybrid model where I would see clients in person, and then the ones that were travelers, because these clients had a really long time value with me. They would be with me an average of five to six years, so they were getting in that age of retirement, and starting to travel around. I created this hybrid model where they would continue working with me, almost on a retainer basis, so whenever they were in Portland, coming from Snowbird Island or Arizona or whatever, they would come and work with me. From that, we birthed the fitness retreats where I would spend a week to two weeks in Hawaii, and people would come and see me, or I would go to Arizona and do the same thing.

It became this VIP exclusivity kind of process. So, I ran that hybrid model almost to this year, where I would have half the people in person, and then the other half of the client volume was this hybrid, 50/50. So, what I ran into was, from 2014 to the current date, I dove into more marketing, and clarifying my message, and my brand, and this whole niche became the buzzword of, "Who do you serve, and what you serve?" I'm like, "I just get people back to life and enjoying their freaking retirement, instead of being comatose or with illness." So, I almost being in this rabbit hole of, "Okay, now I'm marketing. Is my message clear? Is my messaging the right media? Am I talking to the right markets?" It's like a rabbit hole for, I don't know.

So, with that said, literally it was like until I got the reminder, I realized for the last six years, I'm still pretty much running on referrals. This is a good thing, but it's not a reliable thing, right?

Dean: I get it, right.

Carlos: Because I don't have a "system," and that's why on the scorecard, I put myself a one in the orchestrated referral, because people just find me. They are like, "Hey, I've heard about you. I've seen your clients or whatever." So I don't have a system where people, or a campaign going on. I really need to get clear, or stop spinning my wheels with lead magnets, and pop-up windows and whatnot. That's where I'm at.

Dean: Okay.

Carlos: And then as far as my time spent on marketing, I've been getting better at crafting my storytelling/testimonials, and also my copywriting skills, which are still below average.

Dean: So, if we look at what you're able to do for people, because Therapeutic Trainer doesn't really tell much about it, right? In terms of it feels like something good is going to happen, but it feels like there's something that I would, an underlying issue or problem that I'm coming to you to solve, is what it sounds like just listening to the name, that title. So, when we look at it, what is it that we're trying to accomplish? What's the puzzle, the cover on the box of the puzzle that we're trying to put together here look like? Are you looking to fill your practice schedule of working with people one-on-one, or are you trying to create online courses? What does it look like for you, if we could just wave a magic wand and get what you want?

Carlos: Yeah, My ambition or whatever you want to call it is, I want to be able to still serve, because I really love what I do. I've been blessed that my clients are awesome. So, it's not like I'm looking to retire or sell the business like many people have tried to talk me into. But because I love what I do, my vision is to be able to still serve people. I will say 60% online, and then the other 40% taken to what I call the experience that I used to give people, which was the fitness retreat. Given the experience, almost in a wicked way, test drive all their hard work, or you can also look at it like a way of celebrating all their hard work, because I took a look at my good years like, "What was happening in 2006 and 2008 was really good."

And it was that people would work with me for like three months, and then I would say, "Hey, this week we're going to be in Hawaii if anybody is willing." So we would make a party, rounds of golf because a bunch of us were golfers. We would paddle surf. We made it that whole experience, and it was the celebration of, you guys have been kicking butt for three months, and this is what it's all about. No shoulder pain, no back pain, no ankle problems. People are like, "Oh my God, who would have thought I could come out here to Hawaii with a bunch of guys, or my wife, and celebrate, and enjoy the food, enjoy the ocean."

So, that's what my vision is. Go back to where I have that group of people, but then at the end I'm also helping the ones that are coming from the murky waters of pain, and therapy, and gain all this weight because I am not able to be active again. Can you help me get to be active? Can you get me to enjoy my time with my grandkids, or be able to travel with my wife now overseas whenever we can, now that I'm retired?

Dean: Yeah.

Carlos: Because those were the pillars that people will share with me back then.

Dean: I get it.

Carlos: So, what I created...

Dean: The people that came on the retreat, they were people that you've already been working with, and it was like a celebration?

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: Okay. So, I think if we look at it in short terms, that would be an after unit part of your business. That's something that you could invite your clients, the people that are part of nurturing a lifetime relationship with people, right?

Carlos: Correct.

Dean: Are people coming to you with, for a period of time to overcome a specific situation, or how long is your typical engagement with somebody? Like you were talking about, three or four months, what's an example of somebody that, if I can send you 10 of them tomorrow, would be the ideal kind of person that historically you've had a great experience with.

Carlos: Yeah, great question. So, what I started doing years ago was, I took some of the advice from people like you and I go, "Okay, what is the pathway that my people follow, and what do I do for people to succeed?" What I created is what I call a roadmap, with a blueprint within. So, when arrive or come to me, I don't ask them what hurts or whatnot. Of course, I do ask them why, but I'm like, "What is your ultimate goal in the next three months, or maybe the end of the year?" Right now, I have a good example of a fellow that he is like, "I just want to stay away from the table. I want to get back to hiking, and my ideal, ultimate goal would be to climb Patagonia."

Dean: Wow. And so, what is the issue that prompted him to come you in the first place? Is it an injury, is it?

Carlos: Yeah, so he had a knee injury, and it was one of those, if you take care of it, you don't need surgery, but if you don't and keep gaining weight, and the knee gets wear and tear and the ligaments keep getting worse, then you do need surgery. In the whole process, because he's a hiker, he gained about 18, 20 pounds because of the high physical activity, and there was a little bit of a depression that goes with it.

Dean: How much of a difference does that make on the joints?

Carlos: It's drastic. It's about eight pounds extra, per joint, and then of course it creeps up. Like I tell people, it creeps up like clouds up to your back, goes from your knee to your hip, from your hip to your back, and then you don't know where to plug the problem. When somebody like him comes, I ask them the question, and then I present them with literally a roadmap. This is where you want to be, so this is what we're going to do. We're going to restore your mobility and your capability, and then slowly we're going to blend into where we call it getting fit again. The byproduct, you might lose weight, which actually happens, and then the last piece of the puzzle is sending you on your journey to where you want to go. Hiking Patagonia, or I have another nurse that went sledding with the dogs in Alaska.

So, they know where they're going. When they come in, it's not like, "I'm going to sell you a 12 week program, or a nine month membership," or whatever. It's like, when you get here, then we transition. So, they're committing to that process, and not a timeline, so to speak, if that makes sense.

Dean: Okay. And then how do you work with them? What does it look like if somebody says, I'm that guy, for instance, that says, "I want to come in and get to Patagonia." And he is 18 pounds overweight, and his knee is possibly requiring surgery, and it's like this vicious cycle. He can't do the thing he loves to do, which is hike, so he's gaining weight, then he needs to exercise to lose the weight to get the pain off of his knee. It's like this whole, I can see how that would be frustrating. Okay.

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: And so, what's your protocol? How do you work with him?

Carlos: We do what I call the therapeutic fitness assessment, which is like a standard test that we apply, but then each person gets, based on what I find, which this is what the assessment told me, but also they pick where they feel they are. So there is a diagram, it's a pyramid, a tier pyramid that they say, "I feel out of shape, but not overweight. I might be overweight." They pick where they're at, and at each level, they tell the story of the level of mental and emotional commitment they're in. So then, it's criss-cross match them like, "You're telling me that your fit, however your fitness test came pretty crappy." I'm telling you this is the testing, right? So they come to these moments.

Dean: What kind of thing would it be in the fitness assessment? What would be some of the benchmarks you see?

Carlos: Your typical therapy, range of motion with a goniometer, your girth measurement. We don't too much on the scale and pinching of the body fat, because like I said, it's not a weight loss program. We do what is called the functional mobility system screen, which is one squat, shoulder reach, spine movement and all that. That is all standardized, so in order, like I tell people, in order for you to be a normal, functional human, you should be able to move your head this way and that way.

Dean: I got you.

Carlos: You should be able to reach behind your back. Those are, normal humans should be able to do that. I'm not asking you to do burpees, or a one legged squat. My mom, 87, can do it.

Dean: Right.

Carlos: So, they can see that come to Jesus moment of that. I give it to them to choose, "Do you agree? You don't agree? Where do you want to go from here?" And most of them, they realize. It's like, "Yeah, I thought I was in really good shape, and I'm not in really good shape." That's when they enter the restoration phase of their program, and then while they do basic, it might be range of motion, it might be a little edema management or stability. Most of it is joint stability and mobility, so nothing about weightlifting or anything like that, but a lot of it is therapeutic stuff. I take the advantage, and start working on their eating behavior, their mindfulness and mind awareness about how they feel about their bodies, and their surroundings. We start blending some of that mindset component while they go through, like a leg lift, or ankle pumps, or something simple like that.

They can see the benefits like, "Oh, I was able to go up and down the stairs one after the other, instead of one at a time." So they get that confidence. Typically, I like to get people through that in three weeks, and they are getting all the steps in their inbox, what I call their workout library. They have access, so they see where they're at.

Dean: Are you doing this assessment, the assessment that you're doing with them, are you doing it by FaceTime, or Zoom, or are you doing it in person, or where?

Carlos: Over the years, I have been able to craft what it was in person, to now do it online in FaceTime via Zoom. So, I have a couple of programs that I have software that again, I'm able to screen their spine and their posture, screen their range of motion and keep everything pretty much standard, and then all these phone calls are recorded. So it's not like you told me, he told me. It's being recorded, you can review or we can actually reminisce on it. "Man, I sounded really depressed back then." I know. Now you're like a happy dude, which is great to do once in a while with them. So yeah, they go, they see their progress, because like I said, it's a roadmap they actually get to physically see. So, if they're ever in doubt like, "Why am I not making progress?"

I'm like, "You completed this exercise. You recorded this." So they're like, "Yeah, I kind of sort of did it." I'm like, "Well, you're either kind of pregnant or you're not. You did or you didn't."

Dean: So, you give them a daily protocol to do?

Carlos: Yeah, we do a weekly. So, the way I tell other trainers is, they go from a task-based, task mentality like a checklist, do it by the end of the week, to a result later on like, "Okay, I want to go to Patagonia." So there is a result they need to get, but right now it's a checklist like a task. There's not a Monday, Wednesday, Friday work out were Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. I don't care when you do it, just do it. Right?

Dean: Yes, I got it.

Carlos: Then every Monday -.

Dean: How often do you meet with them?

Carlos: Every Monday, I do what is called check-in Mondays. So, I spend all day Monday on the phone calls, and some texts, checking in with them, "Hey, how did it go? What didn't you do last week, what can you do better this coming week? How come, how do you feel?" Especially after the weekend is a great time to do it, because they're licking their wounds from the weekend. They can start the week with a clear mind, and back on course like, "Yeah, I went out, or I drink too much, or I pushed myself too much. What can I do to fix my swelling? Because I pushed myself too much on the bike." Whatever. It allows me to give them a guidance for the week ahead, so that's on Mondays. Again, they still see it in their inbox, they're like, "Okay, I'm still in the force."

And some people can go through the steps. Usually about nine steps per phase. I try to minimize it so that they don't feel overwhelmed. Some people can do three steps in two weeks. I'm like, "Wow, you did a great job. You managed your swelling pretty good, you're on point with your range of motion and the rest of your activities. You're not getting too cocky and pushing you're running or you're walking too much. You're on point." So they can see it, and they're like, "Yeah, I'm ahead of the pack." I'm like, "Yes, you are." Saturday is when they get an attaboy or attagirl message from me, because I review what they've done inside their inbox, so they know the man is watching.

Dean: Yeah, right. Okay.

Carlos: Because I check, they have to actually do it. Did you track it, or have you done it yet? They're like, "I forgot to enter it, or I forgot to check it off." I'm just saying, that's how I would.

Dean: How much do you charge for this service?

Carlos: Right now, it's $425 a month.

Dean: Okay. $425 a month, okay.

Carlos: So, they get all that and then some, for that amount, as far as able to contact me, or get on a Zoom call with me. It's very, I have to admit, at the beginning was really busy. People buzzed me on Saturday, or Monday early morning, and now it's like, very rarely because everything is there and their inbox, so they know. I'm able to create FAQs for them, if this happens, go this way. If that doesn't work, go this way.

Dean: Yeah. Based on everything they would call you, would question you, document it, and now you've answered that question ahead of time. Right.

Carlos: And somebody else in the future will have it, so I have it in the back pocket to dish it out right away.

Dean: Smart, yeah.

Carlos: Yeah, that's what I charge.

Dean: And how long does somebody go through a program with you?

Carlos: Well, that's the beauty of it, because once they reach, for instance my guy that wanted to reach Patagonia, he did Patagonia. We did it. No surgery, and then he's like, "I met this great group of guys in this trip, and we're going to do Kilimanjaro." I'm like, "Really, you want to do that?" So now, we've already got the blueprint on how we got the Patagonia. We just need to modify it now so he can push himself the Kilimanjaro, so that stake keeps raising up, and raising up, and raising up. He's been with me, and he's done three summits already. He's been with me probably six years.

Dean: Wow. Now, is he an outlier in terms of, is that unusual, or if we were to say of all the people that are currently working with you right now, what is the average length of tenure?

Carlos: Five years is the average time that people stay, but come and go, the revolving door, because they know, they get what they sign up for. I get people coming through, "Hey, I don't want to ski anymore. I want to start cross country skiing." So, they come back for that component, because they know they require different energy system, and they're older or whatnot, or they might have gone away and they got injured in another way, and they don't want to deal with 12 sessions of physical therapy and all that. They know they get it from their home, and then some more because they get all the other components of a wellness program when they join. I'll see that influx of self-refer themselves back to me.

Dean: I got you. How many people do you have room for? If people are on average, working with you for five years, it feels like you've got a pretty stable situation. What percentage of capacity are you at?

Carlos: I'm not at full capacity.

Dean: Right.

Carlos: Because, well for a couple of reasons. One is that I have three kids that I'd really like to continue being involved with them, which is one reason that I went soloprenuer because my firstborn was born in 2004. Then the other reason is, I like my happy number is 20 people. Right now, I've got 15 clients, so I'm not that far off. However, like I said at the beginning, this is pretty much all self-referred. I really don't have a set percentage, I cannot say out of those 15 people right now that I can say, "Oh, that was a co-marketing campaign that I did, and now they are my clients."

Dean: Okay. I think that you probably have the opportunity to really just focus on orchestrating referrals to make this happen. It's probably not going to be the thing where you're trying to push everything through marketing, because for just room for five clients, it's almost, with your history and your relationships, there's probably the opportunity for you to just completely get to that 20 within your after unit. So, let me ask you this. How many people do you have that you've helped in the last five years, let's say?

Carlos: Oh my God, in the last five years? Top of my head, I would say at least 80. Consistently coming and going, moving away, coming back to Portland, at least 80.

Dean: Now, how often are you in communication with those people?

Carlos: Fairly. Well, from the non-business component, fairly regularly. I would say at least once a month with half of them, because the relationship that's been built over the years. With Puerto Rico, I had an influx of people coming with the hurricane, and then with the earthquakes, so people are always checking in. It's like, "Hey, how is your mom, and how is everybody?" They're always staying connected with me via social media, so it's not like I'm forgotten. They always reach out to me, instead of the other way around. I'm like, "Hey, thank you for asking. How have you been, and what have you been doing physically and actively?" Yeah, I would say every month.

Dean: When you look at this, what I would maybe look at doing is creating an orchestrated referral system where when you get referrals right now, do you get referrals? You must.

Carlos: I would say, honestly, I don't have the referral system.

Dean: Right. But when people come to you they say, "Oh, my friend told me that you do all these."

Carlos: Exactly, yeah.

Dean: Okay. What you're getting is what we call passive referrals, where people are just showing up, but you can't really predict that or know when it's going to happen, right?

Carlos: Correct.

Dean: I think that what might be a really valuable thing for you is to build a list of 100 or 150, possibly, people who have either worked with you, or know the kind of work that you do, that could know people who would benefit from working with you. I'll share a strategy that we use with our real estate agents, is we use something called the world's most interesting postcard. What that is, is a postcard that we send every month to your top 150, the people who if you saw them at the grocery store, you would recognize them by name, and you'd stop and have a conversation with them. Those would be the people that we're talking about. Past clients, friends, extended family, people who are other types of service providers that are in your network, your sphere.

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: One of the things that we do is try and create a situation that when they hear people talking about mobility, or pain, or injury, or anything that would be something that you could help them with, that they immediately think of you and then tell you about the people that they just had that conversation with. All referrals happen as a result of conversation, and what's happening is that three things have to be true. They have to notice that the conversation is about knee pain, or about ankle pain, or lost mobility, or inflexibility, or an injury of some kind. Whatever, it's something that would be in your sphere. Then they have to think about you, and then they have to let you know that they've had this conversation with this person, right? So when you look at it, for every one person who has ever called you up and said, "My friend Nancy told me that you could help me with my knee pain. Can you get me back on the bike, or back on my hikes?" Or whatever it is.

For every one time that happens, there's probably five or more opportunities that didn't come about because somebody was in, Nancy was in a conversation, and her friend was talking about knee pain, and she thought of you, and she maybe even said to her friend, "You should call Carlos because he really helped me." But then they didn't call you, and then you run into her at the grocery store six months later, and she says, "Oh, did my friend Joan ever give you a call?" And you say, "No, I never heard from Joan." "Oh, I guess she got it solved or whatever." But she may say to you, "I tell people about you all the time." That's not helping you orchestrate referrals, right? We want to get to a situation where whenever they're in a conversation with somebody, that turns into a referral for you.

So, one of the ways that we do it with the realtors is that we use the back side of the postcard to put a little Post-It note message that looks like a Post-It note graphic. The message might say, "Hi, Carlos. Just a quick note, in case you hear someone talking about selling their house this summer. If you hear someone talk about it, give me a call or text me, and I'll get you a copy of my how to sell your house for top dollar fast book to give them." So, you're offering something that they could give to someone else. If you've got a video, or you've got a report, or a booklet, or some ointment, or some muscle balming ointment, or something that would be helpful for the most common presenting symptoms that people would come to you with.

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: You can imagine saying to all of your top 100, "Just a quick note in case you hear someone talking about knee pain, and wondering if they're going to have to have surgery." You start to talk about that, maybe you talk about your friend that you were able to help, then everybody thought he was going to have to have surgery. We took him through a program, and here's a picture of him hiking Patagonia. If you give me a call or text me, I'll get you a copy, I'll send you this video, or this report, or this book or prescription protocol for it. Something that the friend would get the glory for.

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: And that, I think that if you just did that sort of, the different types of people that you're helping, that would get you your five. That would keep you at that full practice level, you know?

Carlos: Yeah, okay.

Dean: And it's a very simple thing. Very low cost, easy to implement thing. You may have the postcard series be profiles of transformations. If you're looking at, you're celebrating all of these successes, like the guy that went to Patagonia, who else would be a client that you helped all the way through to that journey phase?

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: Are there other stories that come to mind?

Carlos: Yeah. I mean, pretty much that's the premise of the business, right?

Dean: Yeah.

Carlos: You've got to have an ultimate listing agent, so to speak. So, from dog sledding, to walking through Spain, El Camino thing in Europe. Almost all the clients have that story of destination like, "Man, I got here, and I should have been bedridden or whatever."

Dean: Right.

Carlos: So, on that, I really see the value and how this is applicable. My question is, how do I present, given that my market is, and you can probably tell the semi affluent to affluent people.

Dean: Yeah, it's fine. That's part of the thing, they're going to be hanging around other semi-affluent to affluent people. That's what we're looking at. How many times, this is where we talked about it. How many times do you think the 100 people that you know, let's take it to your top 100 people. How many times do you think they are in a conversation, over a 12 month period, that in some way it's related to pain, or mobility, or injury, or potential surgery, or weight gain, or energy? All of the things that would be precursors to getting on board with you for the restoration kind of phase.

Carlos: Yeah, almost every week, if not every day.

Dean: Right, and there's the thing. That's the next thing. How often do you think those people even notice that's what the conversation is about? They're just floating around there, having the conversation, but if you were to elevate the awareness of those conversations by presenting them these stories and this admonition. Just a quick note, in case you hear someone talking about knee pain, back pain, hip pain, foot pain, swelling, injury, lack of mobility, loss of energy, stiffness, any of those things, right? That are, all of those are individual potential conversations that somebody might have.

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: And if you had the way, this is where I've got into this awareness of, what it's doing is its programming your top 100 people to be on the lookout for people who have a mobility issue or an injury, and instructing them on what to do when they hear that.

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: So that they're calling you to get something that they can give to their friend. You're not turning them into a salesperson for you, you're not saying, "Don't forget to tell your friends your referrals are the lifeblood of our business, please tell your friends and we can help them." It's essentially turning your clients into a salesperson for you, which nobody is comfortable with. But if you've got a book called, From the Couch to Kilimanjaro, and you're telling a path, a proven path to get from immobility to living your dreams, that would be a wonderful thing that somebody could give a signed copy of your book to their friend.

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: Right? If every time you're prefacing that conversation with someone, and they hear someone talking about it, they're going to remember, "Oh, Carlos just sent me a postcard about that. I should get a copy of this book for Nancy." And now, she's calling you or texting you to say, "Hey, can you send me a copy of your book?" Now you know that she's had a conversation with someone who has got some issue that would be relevant to you, right? So now, you can say to your client, Nancy, "Well, tell me about your friend. What's going on with Joan? How can I help are the best?" Now you know that she's had that conversation. Otherwise, she may or may not say to Joan, "You should call Carlos." And she may or may not call you. We're just orchestrating these things for people.

Dean: And probably the less steps I have them take, the better, right?

Dean: That's exactly right, because it's always easier for them to text you. If you make it that simple, right? If you make sure that everybody in your top 100 has your phone number in their cell phone, so that then you're prompting them whenever, "If you hear someone talking about that, text to me right away and I'll get you a copy of my book to give them." Or a specific video to give them, or something that just lets them be the star. They get the glory of it, you know?

Carlos: Yeah. And then on that same, let's say for lack of a better term, in that same tactic, what would be, because of course there's so many ways to go with, right now I'm thinking of my golf conditioning book. Because from back then, I created this menu of pretty much how to get from injured, to be able to read a green without hurting your back. So I created a pamphlet, but it can be the turnaround, and flip around each winter, how do you go about this no-showing? So, how do I? Is there a guidance or rule to, "Okay, try this tactic for six months, or four months, and if it doesn't work, scratch it and go back to the drawing board."

Dean: Right now, part of the thing is that it's happening, and you're not aware of it. So, you're not tracking it in any way right now. You're kind of sporadically reaching out to people, or you're having some kind of contact with them, but there is no strategy or orchestration behind it. And so, what I'm showing, and advocating for is, let's put a strategy around it. So, the people who are being referred to you right now, 100% of the time, they're coming, these referrals are coming from people who know you, like you and trust you, right?

Carlos: True.

Dean: So, we know who those people are. Let's identify those 100, or 150. It doesn't even have to be somebody who you've helped. I mean, it could be people who you know, who they may know some people. It may be their parents, or it may be their brother or sister-in-law, or their neighbor, or their uncle, or whatever it is. Somebody, everybody has a sphere of influence themselves, that they are in conversation with. If we can get 100 people programmed to refer you, to be paying attention to conversations about people who could be benefited by your help, that's going to be a win. And so we measure it by what we call your return on relationship. Right now, if you can say, how many referrals did you get in the last 12 months?

Carlos: In the last 12 months?

Dean: Yeah.

Carlos: I would say about five or six.

Dean: Okay. If we were to take your top 150, which we know that everybody has, that's about the capacity that people have for relationship. Right now, you are getting about a 3% return on relationship, right? And so the way we measure it is, we look. Now, we do it for six months, and see how many referrals have we gotten in this six months? Did it go up? And it wouldn't have to go up by very many for you to notice the difference.

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: But I think that's a wonderful thing. If you start thinking about that, if you start taking... Do you take pictures of people celebrating the things?

Carlos: I don't take it, but they actually send it to me like, "Hey, it's me over here on the summit, or it's me over here at the hotel after a long hike or whatever." So, I do have a handful of those kind of pictures around. Which actually brings me to my next point as far as validity, or validating. Do you hear or find that people, let's say somebody is like, "Yeah, you need to talk to Carlos if this is what you want to do." Would that person likely go Google me and find me on social media platforms?

Dean: This is what's happening right now, is that we don't know how that's going to happen. You're not in control of it.

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: That's the way it's happening right now. What we want to do is that your friend is in the conversation with someone, they say, "You need to talk to him. Let me get you a copy of his book." And now, your client or friend calls you, and now you know that George exists. Right? So now, it doesn't matter. You can direct how it fits.

Carlos: Which way to go.

Dean: You get connected, exactly. Because right now, you are having to depend that they're going to go to Google and look you up. That's unpredictable. But you can say, your friend, your client John is going to call you and say, "Hey, I was just talking with my friend George, and he's got a knee issue where he's thinking he may have to have surgery, but I told him about what you did for me."

Carlos: Which is exactly what happens.

Dean: Yeah. Now you can say, "Let me send you a copy of this book, or these videos that are like this series of how to avoid knee surgery, or how to avoid hip surgery, or how to avoid back surgery." Something that would be relevant for them, as an introduction to them.

Carlos: To my habitat, yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Carlos: Okay, very good.

Dean: It just feels like, do you do a podcast?

Carlos: No. I do quite a bit of videos, because like I said, I'm working on copywriting. I'm a better on video than writing, so I'm working on the running component. I do have a handful of videos of tutorials on do-it-yourself, self care.

Dean: Not that, even. I was thinking about you're documenting and celebrating the victories.

Carlos: Yes, got it.

Dean: Every time. Imagine if you did a podcast or video interview with your friend who just went to Kilimanjaro, and you sit down and you tell the story. Like, "I used to be this, and I used to, I was constantly on the go, and then I injured my knee, and I was sidelined, and I gained 20 pounds, and I was going to have to have surgery, and then I met Carlos, and Carlos said that's ridiculous."

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: So I started working with Carlos.

Carlos: Kind of like...

Dean: Inspirational.

Carlos: Almost like video journaling.

Dean: Yes, that's exactly right. A vlog, right.

Carlos: Yeah. So, pretty much trying to capture their hero journey to understand.

Dean: That's exactly right, yes.

Carlos: And I'll do my storytelling content, so to speak.

Dean: Yes.

Carlos: Okay.

Dean: I think that's going to be more predictable, and reliable for you, because you're almost there at 20 people. I think this could get you to that, and it's such a great goal that you have, to just continue doing what you're doing, and helping people. You've got a great lifestyle business. You're not looking to scale clinics all over the world.

Carlos: No, no. I mean, people have always reached out to me with that, and I'm like, "No, I'm happy doing what I do."

Dean: Right, exactly.

Carlos: I'm happy. It's like that story of the fisherman. No, I don't want to go back.

Dean: Right, I love that story. People always say that.

Carlos: I'm happy here. I love what I do.

Dean: Yeah.

Carlos: Perfect, perfect. So, I definitely need to build it, and I have the resources. I just need to clean them up a little bit and present it to at least 100 people, and activate that number.

Dean: Yeah. I think that would be something to think about on one side of the postcard, almost like a picture and story of someone who, almost like you imagine them as oversized trading cards, baseball cards or sports cards. There's a picture of the person at the top of the mountain, and you tell basically the story of that person, and congratulating them. Then on the other side of the postcard, you just get into that format of just a quick note, in case you hear someone talking about knee pain holding them back. A lot of times, people who are active get sidelined with a knee injury, and they don't know what to do. If you hear someone talk about that, give me a call or text me at this number, and I'll get you a copy of my book to give them. That's really all. If you just did that every month, you're going to see a result from that.

Carlos: Yeah, or at least be able to systematize a way to get referrals.

Dean: That's exactly right.

Carlos: And then from there, start tweaking and adjusting as needed.

Dean: Yes, that's right.

Carlos: Excellent, excellent.

Dean: I like it. What's your takeaway?

Carlos: Use what I have.

Dean: Yes.

Carlos: I had it here, I just was not using it.

Dean: Right.

Carlos: So now, putting what I have into a process in order to get the pipeline of referrals like it used to be. Also, I like the capturing the client's journey to their destination.

Dean: Yeah, I love it.

Carlos: That can be like my Monday check-in, because they are telling me how their last week was.

Dean: Right.

Carlos: We have a meeting like that every Monday, and then yeah. That's the biggest takeaways. Use what I have, that I already know. I just have to implement it, and then I'm able to clean it up and take it from there.

Dean: Perfect.

Carlos: Yeah.

Dean: I love it.

Carlos: Excellent, me too. Thank you so much. This has added a bunch of clarity, and tons of guidance.

Dean: That's awesome. Send me one of your, email me a PDF or whatever of one of your postcards when you put it together. I can always use some feedback on that.

Carlos: Yes, for sure, and I already have some of the pictures you gave me, the Post-It graphic on the back. I'm already visualizing it, so this is awesome.

Dean: Perfect, good. If you want, there is a sample so you can see what we're talking about at gettingreferrals.com.

Carlos: Gettingreferrals.com?

Dean: There's a whole report there that goes into the psychology of referrals. That would be very useful for you, yeah. Love it.

Carlos: Awesome, thank you so much. That was helpful.

Dean: That was fun.

Carlos: Very, very much fun. Very awesome. Excited that we got a chance to hang out on a Friday, in beautiful weather.

Dean: Yeah, exactly. That's it.

Carlos: Beautiful outcome, so you saved the day.

Dean: Well, you have a great day in Portland, and I will talk to you soon.

Carlos: You do the same. I appreciate you again for taking the time.

Dean: Thanks, Carlos. Bye.

Carlos: All right, ciao. Bye.

Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation, if you want to go deeper in how the eight profit activators can apply to your business, two things you can do. Right now you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com and you can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book, and you can listen to the back episodes, of course, if you're just listening here on iTunes. Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the eight profit activators are part of the Breakthrough DNA process. You can download a book and a scorecard, and watch a video all about the eight profit activators at breakthroughdna.com. That's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business.

That's really the way we think about Breakthrough DNA, as an operating system that you can overlay on your existing business and immediately look for insights there. So, that's it for this week. Have a great week, and we will be back next time with another episode of More Cheese, Less Whiskers.