Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers Podcast, we're talking with Geoffrey Fullerton, all the way from Jamaica.

Part of his business is as an affiliate for a particular service, and we had a really interesting conversation about his approach to finding people, then building and keeping a dedicated group of users who would benefit from the shrive he's promoting.

It's really an 'After Unit' model of building relationships, as opposed to just being a 'Before Unit' of finding people who want to sign up.

It's a great jumping-off point because we went on to talk about how to differentiate yourself and the importance of selecting a single target market that responds to this differentiation.

If you're an affiliate of any product or service, this is a good model to think about how you can add value to the basic tools that people are using.

Show Links:
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BreakthroughDNA.com
EmailMastery.com

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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 200

 

Dean: Geoffrey Fullerton

Geoffery: Dean, what a privilege to get on a call with you.

Dean: Wow, here we are.

Geoffery: Fantastic.

Dean: We made it.

Geoffery: Yeah, I know. I'm so glad to be here, bud.

Dean: I'm excited. So I'm in my favorite evil scheme-hatching perch with my remarkable notebook and a bottle of water, and I'm ready to go.

Geoffery: Same I got all my stuff.

Dean: So what are we going to talk about today?

Geoffery: Well here's what we're going to talk about today. I want to launch a new podcast that is designed for entrepreneurs, online entrepreneurs predominantly-

Dean: What makes you think entrepreneurs like podcasts, Geoffrey?

Geoffery: Well, maybe it's from years of listening to you.

Dean: Well, okay.

Geoffery: Well, really, I think the thing is listening to you, John Lee Dumas, and just the avatars that you guys have, and I think that entrepreneurs are always busy and active. So listening to something, an audio, versus watching something is going to be more positive, right?

Dean: I agree, 100%.

Geoffery: So in order to do that, I'm looking at... I have a podcast already, but it's a video podcast that I do with Facebook Live, and then I transpose it, I guess, to an audio for a different industry, different market, right?

Dean: Okay.

Geoffery: I just generally love the podcasting, and I think I'm going to enjoy more so the audio podcast, because I think I'll have more resources, get to use my voice, and all these other things that I think... I'll also capture more attention, because people will be... More consumption, I should say, because people will be listening to it while they're doing their laundry, while they're driving, any of those things, right?

Dean: Right on.

Geoffery: The other aspect too for you that really would be aware of also is that I'm starting out as a... I'm a new affiliate, so working to become a super affiliate for a software that hasn't been officially launched yet, but it has a solution for online entrepreneurs, a massive solution for online entrepreneurs. So what I thought is that if I create my own podcast that happens to interview, an interview-style podcast where I'm interviewing people that are power users or software or they are running their business using the software, and also affiliates that are promoting it, that that at least could be, at least in the start anyways, could be something great. I want to really focus in on entrepreneur lifestyle. So it's like what were the trials and tribulations, the challenges, what were the wins, what were the things that you used and so on? With all that mixed up into a kind of gumbo, that's what I'm thinking of. I'm operating out of Jamaica, so I'm here in Jamaica on the north coast.

Dean: Oh you're in Jamaica, okay.

Geoffery: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: Nice.

Geoffery: I don't sound Jamaican at all, and I don't think I'll ever will, but I was born here and grew up in Canada, and so I -

Dean: Oh, okay. I was going to say you sound more Canadian than Jamaican, for sure.

Geoffery: Exactly, so that's the whole mixture here. So connected with a few people in the business, as far as I know them or I have some of them as mentors. I've been listening to you and of course Joe for a lot of years. Now it's really a time where I feel a definite need to apply your eight profit activators, and hence why I reached out to you to see if I could be a guest today and we could just hatch some evil schemes.

Dean: Okay, perfect. So how long have you been in Jamaica now? When did you move-

Geoffery: Eight years now.

Dean: Oh, so you've been there for eight years, wow.

Geoffery: Yeah, I moved back... Yeah, yeah. I moved back eight years ago. I used to be a fine art auctioneer on luxury cruise ships.

Dean: Really?

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: Okay.

Geoffery: Yeah, so a rare gig, and then shopping guide, so I enticed people to buy diamonds, gemstones, and fine watches at the different ports of call. So I was on ships for about a decade, and then decided to move back to Jamaica to really... Two purposes really, to enhance the economic standing of the people I come in contact with, and also to enhance my reputation.

Dean: I got you. So was the shopping guide, are you an affiliate relationship with the retailers?

Geoffery: Until you said that, I never thought of it that way, but that is exactly correct. Yeah.

Dean: So you would take the people there and show them how to negotiate with the locals, and meanwhile you're getting a cut of everything that they're buying. Is that what it was?

Geoffery: Correct.

Dean: That's great.

Geoffery: Exactly.

Dean: Okay. Wow.

Geoffery: Great gig, hey?

Dean: It's something. But no, I know that art situation on cruise ships is really a big revenue generator for cruises.

Geoffery: Definitely.

Dean: Yeah, because you've got a captive audience basically in a relaxed mode looking for a memory of their vacation. That's something.

Geoffery: Yeah, exactly.

Dean: Okay. So now, what are you doing now? What's your main thing now?

Geoffery: So what happened, yeah, what my main thing is now, when I moved back here, the only company I was aware of was Sandals Resorts. It's like the couples-only resort company. So I proposed a shopping program, like what I was doing on ships. I proposed that to them. I had a chance to get in touch with some of their decision makers, and then my whole life changed when they said, "You know what? I like your idea, Geoff, but can I tell you what I really need? We need somebody like you to teach our people how to sell like how you're selling us right now." And said, "Could you do something like that?" In my head, I said, "I don't want to teach people how to sell. I just want to sell." But out of my mouth came, "Absolutely, sir. I can do something like that for you."

So from there, I launched into a program that I created from reverse engineering what I did on ships called the Mindset, Mission, and Moves of Luxury Travel PRofessionals, otherwise known as the M3 and did a test pilot. Then basically from there, 8,000 people in seven different countries have gone through my programs.

Dean: Wow.

Geoffery: In hospitality as well as financial services and retial.

Dean: Wow. So that's-

Geoffery: Throughout the Caribbean and in North America.

Dean: So now that's things have changed, I guess, on that front.

Geoffery: Big time.

Dean: How is Jamaica fairing with COVID?

Geoffery: Well, I think Jamaica was really kind of a first adopter. They're doing I think pretty well compared to many other countries, because they jumped on this thing right away. But there's still major restrictions with a lot of things in movement. Of course, the hospitality tourism industry is basically devastated. You've got the big companies like Sandals and like a few others that have started to open up resorts, but it's making progress, but there's still a lot to be done and things are not fully functional.

Dean: Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So how did you go from that to this affiliate relationship that you're in now, the software or whatever? Yeah.

Geoffery: Yeah, sure, because everything I was doing with my training company was all face-to-face obviously, right?

Then when COVID happened, really for us here in Jamaica in March, everything was destroyed pretty much for me, because my company, all the contracts that I was about to even close even all went sideways, right? So I had to figure out what am I going to do? How am I going to pivot and transition? So I started working with another mentor of mine and started to get online. I created a private Facebook group called Hotel Sales Institute, because I just took my knowledge that I had and I said, "I could actually help decision makers in the tourism industry bolster themselves and prepare themselves and share this education and knowledge, and then eventually monetize it."

So created that private Facebook page, built it to almost 300 people, wrote a book called Tourism Revenue Revelations, and built this group, right? But I was still faced with the fact that the tourism sector is a long play at best. It's two years, three years before really anything really profitable will be happening in there. So I would start doing research on what sectors were riding a wave or cresting during this time, this COVID time.

So I came up with five areas, healthcare, fintech, so financial technology, as well as sanitation or cleaning companies, and the internet in general, and also cyber security. So those are the five sectors that I researched and discovered, "Wow, these things are rolling. People in here are not suffering necessarily if they've managed to embrace an opportunity and be able to provide something of value." Then literally about a week later, my mentor... I don't know if you know Joel Bauer.

Dean: Yeah, I do.

Geoffery: Joel called me up. You know Joel, right?

Dean: Yeah. I do, yeah.

Geoffery: Joel calls me up and says, "Geoff, you need to check out this software," right? Joel never promotes anything, especially a software in that sense, that adamantly. So I was like, "I got to look at this." One thing led to the other, I looked at it, saw that it was solutions for me, but then I saw that I could actually earn income as well and help a lot more people by being an affiliate. So that's how the affiliate thing came up.

Dean: So that's great. So you're early in. It's not even released yet. So you're laying the ground work here.

Dean: Okay. What type of software? What type of things is it going to help people with? So you can...

Geoffery: Yeah, so imagine a one-platform for all of your digital solutions. So everything from web page builders, sales funnel builder, email, marketing videos, webinars, live webinars as well as recorded automated webinars. So there's about 14 or so different tools that are all built from ground-up, designed to work together harmoniously. So instead of what a lot of online entrepreneurs are dealing with, like herding cats, they have all these different softwares out there that as they start building their business, they realize the necessity of them, but then what comes along with that is the headache of trying to integrate them, the cost of them independently.

So what this company has done as... The company's called GrooveFunnels. What they've managed to do is they've actually built it from ground up and built it to work from one dashboard. So it's in beta currently, but there have been a lot of early adopters. There's 100,000 users right now, and projected to be around a million by the front of the new year once everything is completely built.

So in my brief experience online the last three years, I've used many different softwares, but then when I saw this, for me to upgrade to the full use of the suite was less than half of what I paid per year for just one of the softwares that I use, like the - funnel.

Dean: Right, right. Yes.

Geoffery: So it does create quite a wide... People can go from... It's very simple drag and drop, so beginners can use it as well as intermediate, as well as even programmers, because it has that facility for more detailed programming and stuff like that also.

Dean: Gotcha. Okay. So you're looking now to take your podcast as a tool to build an audience to support your affiliate efforts with this, is that the whole thing?

Geoffery: That's right, yeah.

Dean: Okay. So with that then, their affiliate program, are you getting a bounty or ongoing revenue?

Geoffery: Oh, great. So a bounty, define what you mean by a bounty. I don't know what you mean by that other than the candy bar.

Dean: Well, so you get... Okay. well, usually two ways that you get paid on SaaS products like that is a bounty meaning a one-time payment for referring a new customer, or a monthly recurring affiliate.

Geoffery: Oh yeah, yeah.

Dean: Where you're getting a percentage of what they pay every month.

Geoffery: Right, yeah. So it is actually kind of a combination, because right now, there's a special offer, a lifetime offer. So get access to the entire platform of solutions for one investment and have access to that and whatever they develop in the future for life. So that is the opportunity right now. I don't know when you're broadcasting this, but the date today, I don't know what the date is. Is it 9th?

9th of September? Right? So at this present time, that's an offer, but once it is launched and it goes into a traditional subscription model, monthly subscription model. Now in both cases, I get paid. So I'll get my percentage of commission on that opportunity, but once it goes to subscription model, every month for life I receive a commission, an affiliate commission every month.

Dean: Right. So now then the thing that's going to help you will be a focus on a niche for it. Are you planning on targeting a specific segment, or are you planning on just that it can work for everybody kind of approach? What's your take? How are you going to differentiate yourself from all the other affiliates doing the same thing?

Geoffery: Yeah. One of the things that I was thinking... There's two ways I think that that can be done, because of course coming from the profit activators, I know where you're asking it from too, right?

To select a single market, right? Target market.

Dean: Yeah.

Geoffery: So then one way I was looking at it that I could become the king of podcasts, utilizing podcasts to draw attention to your business as an online entrepreneur using podcasts to develop an affiliate revenue to support your business, and utilizing the medium of podcasts. That's one angle I thought, right?

Geoffery: So the people that would be interested in that. Then the other thing that I'm looking, I'm partnering with a good friend of mine, that we know that the next problem that's going to be created with this solution is that people have these great tools, but how do I step by step, move by move apply them to my actual business and get results? So he's already created a program, and then we're incorporating some of the things that I do, and we're creating a step by step, move by move process that anyone can come in to our group or our organization, if you may, and be able to onboard themselves and their business with a plug and play type of system, done with you system. So those are two things that I think that we can offer, but when it comes to the niche, I don't think I've really answered your question as far as what will differentiate ourselves from them?

Dean: Right. Yeah. That's what I'm asking. What is the... Yeah, how are you going to attract... Because it's the tools is one thing. That's just like the platform, right?

Geoffery: Correct.

Dean: Having those things it's not going to matter, because on its own, it's not going to do anything for them. It's how they apply the tools, the specialized knowledge for applying the tools is going to be what's the most valuable. Because most of the-

Geoffery: Exactly.

Dean: ... people don't know what to do with the tools. That's the bigger problem. It's not that they have... None of the tools that you're describing are hard to find.

Geoffery: Correct.

Dean: Everything, like you said, everybody's got all of these things, combining them all into one thing. I have a program called GoGoClients.com, which sounds essentially the same idea of combining landing pages, auto responders, toll-free voicemail, texting, landing pages, all those tools in one thing, but they're not... Having the tools in itself isn't what's helping people get success.

Geoffery: Correct.

Dean: So it feels like if you look at a specific niche and you're able to not only provide the... Let's call that the hardware, because that was the platform. We'll call that the hardware, but the software, meaning these landing pages, this, if you think about local businesses as an example, that if you had the chiropractor kit kind of thing, right?

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: Which is now... Right, it's not just about the tool, it's about the system that chiropractors can use to use these tools, right? To apply it to those tools. So it's like your add-on to that is what makes it really valuable. Because if any chiropractor could go get that tool from anybody else, they have to figure out what to do. If you have figured out what to do, then you've got the... Now you've got a way to differentiate.

Geoffery: Exactly. Yeah. That makes total sense. Got the semblance of the idea as far as, yeah, providing the software. That's the know-how of utilizing the tools, right?

I love your idea that you said too, like the kids. By defining the niche, we would create a kit which is an end-to-end solution of how you utilize these tools for that particular niche.

Okay. Okay.

Dean: Because otherwise, the thing is going to be... The way that you're going to benefit the most in this kind of a situation is by focusing on the after-unit of this, right? The after-unit is the equity that you're building, the long-term relationship. Once you find a customer for that, once you find somebody who's using the tools, then the idea is to keep them. The way to keep them is to have a direct link between their use of those tools and money going into their bank account.

Geoffery: Yes.

Dean: You're not in the selling the tool business. You're in the helping chiropractors, we'll use that as the example, as the placeholder, but it could just as easily be bowling alleys or cafes or bakeries or plumbers or whatever. You're in the business of helping them get business. It just so happens that it goes through these tools.

Geoffery: Absolutely, yeah. Because the thing that you said about focusing on the after unit, that makes total sense, because the companies, we truly leverage what the company's already doing in their marketing, promotion, spending the money to make sure the platform works beautifully, etc, right?

Then isn't it really like looking and saying, "Okay, in regards to the after-unit, what is currently missing that we could provide and to help the people stick?" The best way to stick is for them to be using the software and it transfers into money in the bank account, as you said.

Okay. That totally makes sense.

Dean: Because now if I'm running this Facebook campaign or these ads or I've got my email newsletter, my funnels are all set up in there, and they're working, I'm not going to disconnect my funnels from there.

Geoffery: Right. Okay, so then if I'm looking at the after unit, right?

Dean: Yeah.

Geoffery: And I think that's probably... So I'm looking at the after-unit, I'm leveraging the podcast, the podcast is your mindset number three. Educate and motivate, right?

Dean: That's exactly right.

Geoffery: Okay? So with that, it's definitely to do that, to educate and motivate. Then it, of course, makes a suggestion to go somewhere for something, right?

Dean: That's right.

Geoffery: The ability to appeal to the new person that's never heard of GrooveFunnels or the person that is already a user and they want to tune in because they're inspired from the stories, etc, right?

I know that you talk about this all the time, and it's still a challenge, is that I have to pick one, to pick the first-

Dean: At a time. Nobody ever says that.

Geoffery: Yeah, at a time.

Dean: Is to pick one at a time, but Procter and Gamble does it all the time. They've got 23 individual billion dollar brands, but they're not trying to sell you Tide and Crest at the same time. They're not trying to...

Geoffery: Right.

Dean: They're each different things. So it's possible, and the reality is this is the kind of entertainment fallacy that we have, that variety is largely for entertainment, not sustainment.

Geoffery: Oh wow.

Dean: That's a really interesting concept, that variety is only to entertain you, not to sustain you. So the thing is, the fundamental thing is that in order for this business or any business to be a success is you have to find a customer, and you have to serve them in a way that benefits them such that they'll give you money for the value that you provided for them, right?

Dean: If you take away, strip away the wrapper of it, strip away the presentation of it at the fundamental core, somebody's going to use these tools and pay whatever per month for them, right?

Dean: That is the fundamental thing. So if you've got to do that and you're selling people one at a time, right?

Dean: You're not selling groups of people. People are buying one credit card at a time, one person at a time, one micro decision at a time. So if you're going to sell 1,000 people on this, it'd be much easier to sell 1,000 chiropractors or one particular business on this than it is to... It makes all the sense in the world, logically think that, well, if I can make this appeal to chiropractors and plumbers and dentists and bakers and candlestick makers, I just have to get a little bit of that bigger pie. I just get a little sliver of that bigger market to get to my thousand, because there's millions of people.

The same thing, when you're selling an everything tool to anybody for anything, you're not limiting yourself in any way, as opposed to selling a money-creating machine for chiropractors to all of the chiropractors until you run out of them. That's the-

Geoffery: and then you go on to whatever the next would be, if you-

Dean: That's exactly right, or you set up the system, you set up the process, the software for it, you get it going, you figure out you're a sales architect, let's call you, right?

That might be a good way to put it, that your sales architecture could be trained to other people, because that's what you do. You're a trainer, right?

Geoffery: Yeah. That's right, yeah.

Dean: So for you, your highest and best use is to figure out, crack the code for that one model, then figure out how the sales system, the messaging, the appropriate line of questioning, dialogues, offers, environment, everything that goes into convincing that particular business that this is the right tool for them by demonstrating that you've proven it as a money maker. Then have somebody come in and take over that line. Now sale that to all of the chiropractors while you move into the next one. You always want to leave a wake behind you. You don't want to just be-

Geoffery: Yes, that makes sense.

Dean: ... moving your joystick all around going, "Hey, chiropractors. Hey, dentists. Hey, bakers."

Geoffery: Exactly.

Dean: Yeah, where it feels like you've got this big, open ocean to work with. It's better to focus on one because that's really the thing, when you take out the novelty of it, a lot of really interesting things, like game theory is the things that always... I forget who was saying this or where I saw this, but they were basically talking that we evolve as a species because we figure out the best fitness activities kind of things, the things that are going to advance the species kind of thing, which they figure out the shortcuts. In simulations, in exercises and stuff to test things like this, the ones who zone in on one optimal fitness theory and just exclusively do that thing are always the winners.

Geoffery: They're the leaders of the pack on that, yeah.

Dean: Yeah. But it's interesting, right? Because that's part of this thing is that as entrepreneurs, you just got to have that realization. You got to have that healthy balance of realizing that it is this constant balance between entertainment and sustainment, and that you've got to earn-

Geoffery: Wow, that is so powerful.

Dean: ... the entertainment portion of it by locking in the sustainment part of it.

Geoffery: Yeah, because a lot of people do at the offices, particularly in this social media world, right?

Dean: Right.

Geoffery: They're going with the entertainment that grabs the attention, but they can't sustain it, because they didn't have anything to build it on.

Dean: That's exactly right. You got to secure the bag, as DJ Khalid would say. It's a major key.

Geoffery: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, I love that. Okay, so then with that point-of-view, I almost want to ask you this... I'm going to ask you this question anyways, and we'll play around, and it'll probably come right back to me. But if it was you, if you had the opportunity to be an early adopter of something, it could be software or whatever, what process would you go through to sort, sift, and separate to selecting, especially something that has wide appeal? We'll just talk about this as a software, has wide appeal, no matter if you're a horse trainer or you're a coach speaker, you're going to have use for these tools online, okay?

So then what process would you recommend I go through to sort, sift, and separate to selecting-

Dean: So let's say that someone like me hypothetically had a system called GoGoClients that fits all of those things, and let's say that a guy like me then might take all of those tools and create a system called GoGoAgent.com, which is all those tools packaged with software that solves the five biggest problems or opportunities for real estate agents? So I would take those tools and use those tools to say, "How do we get listings? How do we multiply our listings, and how do we get referrals using these tools? How do we convert leads using these tools? How do we find buyers?"

Then I would package all that up in a movement around something that I call the listing agent lifestyle to use tools and technology to create those things that they really want, because real estate agents, this has been my passion for 30 years now. I started out as a real estate... The path that I started on with marketing was really to grow my real estate business, which led to growing a big real estate coaching business, which led to knowing how to grow a business that does any kind of coaching, which led to Joe Polish doing exactly the same thing I was doing for real estate agents doing for carpet cleaners, which led us to the place-

Geoffery: Carpet cleaners, right.

Dean: Which led us to the place 20 years after we started to now be in a situation to reflect, because we'd already both built big businesses and had big success that way. When we started the I Love Marketing Podcast in 2010, 2011, it was really about just reflecting on all the things we'd learned after a 20-year career of doing what we did. That took on a life of its own to get us to where we are now even. But the thing is that it was all steeped in the focus on a 20-year focus on one niche.

Geoffery: Wow. Yeah.

Dean: Yeah, so that's the thing is thinking about when you look at your... So these big five here, right?

The five sectors that you mentioned that are not hurting at all, so how do you take a sanitation company that is in that world now, how do you take these tools, identify the entrepreneurial opportunities in these things, and identify how to best use? Nobody wants tools for tools sake. It doesn't matter.

Geoffery: Exactly, yeah.

Dean: Right, and so everybody's already got all of these things, a lot of them. So why would they switch, unless you make the switching incidental? The tools should be working in background to just be a way to deploy the software that you've figured out. That's the most valuable thing.

Geoffery: Totally.

Dean: It makes sense. Right.

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: So that, rather than just trying to make something for everything, just a something for everything podcast, something for everybody is think about it as a specific niche one at a time.

Geoffery: Exactly. Exactly. So it's funny. Interesting that you said though that look at the five, and would be smart to select something from the five, because those ones are doing well, then you won't have -

Dean: Right, but when you picked sanitation, when you went down there, what kind of businesses were in this sanitation field that you're talking about?

Geoffery: Oh yeah, so it ranged. It's from manufacturing cleaning supplies to sanitizing hotels, like going into hotels and sanitizing, cleaning hotels so that they're "COVID approved", if you may, right?

Then there's another one where it was a company that they had a patented formula for using natural products to clean. So there was natural products that were doing the sanitizing to be used for sanitization. So there's a wide variety of different sectors, I guess you could say, or ways that they contributed to the sanitization market.

Dean: So you want to have something where there's a lot of them rather than something where there's a few of them. There may only be a few manufacturers of cleaning supplies. There's not going to be a million of those or 100,000 of those. There may not be 1,000 of those. You want to look for... But the surface business is sanitizing hotels, there's going to be thousands of those.

Geoffery: Yeah. Yeah.

Dean: Right? And sanitizing not just hotels, but schools or dental offices, doctor offices. There's any number of when you look at those cleaning or sanitizing companies, there's lots of opportunity there. If you can show them how to get... If you solve their biggest problems, which are how do we get the word out? How do we get new business? If you figured out a way to do that and it happens to use your tools, everybody wins, right?

Geoffery: Everybody wins, right. Okay. So then what I'm going to do then, in regards to that, is I've just got to look and say, "Okay, well what area do I either have access to a successful process or know myself personally as a successful process, and then how can we find out what the problems are? And then how the tools that I have access to can help solve or even eliminate.

Dean: Yes. Yes, because what would they do, right? What would you do if you were that business? That's part of the thing is that you need to be able to go ahead and go into this idea of figuring out how to solve their problems.

Geoffery: Yes.

Dean: Because if you can solve-

Geoffery: So for example...

Dean: ... them better than they can.

Geoffery: Right. So one of the ways that... I have a good friend that is an expert in market research, mostly predominantly in survey, like surveying, right?

Dean: Yeah.

Geoffery: She does it for large and small companies to just tap into an association or something like that in any one of those sectors and be able to get a quality survey, like how we should be positioned, etc, etc, take the tools with the problems, and then do a match.

Dean: Yes. You got to figure it out. you got to understand when you sell the tools to somebody, the tools on their own are really not going to be the thing. It's the sheet music. If you're thinking about it, you can sell them the instruments, but they need the sheet music to play songs. That's part of the thing, right? They want to play the "get me a customer" song, and if they don't know how to do it, the tool isn't going to do it for them. The tool gives them the capability to do it, right?

Geoffery: Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily give them the result unless they actually associate it to what their outcomes are and the solution of solving of their particular problems.

Dean: There's an interesting distinction. I misstated that is that it gives them the ability to do it, but it doesn't give them the capability to do it. That is what you need to equip them with, the knowledge, the capability to do it. They got the ability now to build a landing page, to build an email dialogue sequence or to send a newsletter or whatever other tools go with it. They have the ability to do that, but they don't have the capability to make it work to do what it's supposed to do, you know?

Geoffery: Yes, exactly.

Dean: They need to know. What do we do with it now?

Geoffery: So then that would be the biggest launch point for me in regards to this too is that first of all, deciding on that is obviously the first mindset, isn't it? Select a single target market now, right?

Then the compelling your prospects is here again. How do you look at this as far as if the after-unit, as you said, is the area to really put solutions in there for the after-unit? The after-unit on the actual software is what you're talking about. So we would play a part as being the after-unit -

Dean: No, I'm saying your business. When we're looking at your business, see, when I listen to you talk about it, the way that you're talking about it is you're... It's steeped in your background and everything, that you're talking about it as a sales organization. That's what you're thinking about is we're going to sell it.

Geoffery: All right.

Dean: You're not thinking about what happens after. You're positioning... The way I visualize you saying that is that you're out in front of this big top tent, and you're out front, and you're at the entrance, and you are barking up a storm to let people know about what the wonders that are inside the tent, and the, "Come on in. Here's the [inaudible 00:46:36]," kind of thing.

Geoffery: Great visual. Yeah.

Dean: But then you're not going in the tent after that. That's the way I'm describing it, right? That's the way I'm seeing it is that your interest and your focus is on being outside the tent, getting people in the tent. I'm saying that you need to be able to draw people into the tent, and they don't want to leave, because what's going to happen is you're going to get them into the tent, and they're going to look around, and then there's no insight or instruction, or they don't have any idea on what to do now. They've got the ability. You've got a landing page. "Okay, build your landing pages." "Okay, well what do I say on there?"

Geoffery: I'm going back out in front of the tent. Go ahead, do it, but that's not what they need.

Dean: You never went in. You never went in the tent. 

Geoffery: Yeah, I never went in the tent.

Dean: You're outside the tent, because once they're in-

Geoffery: Wow, great.

Dean: But you're not even looking out the back door that they're coming in, and if they don't have that way, then they're going to churn. They'll leave, because it didn't live up to the hype. You've heard that same thing, right?

Geoffery: Yeah, exactly.

Dean: So many businesses, that's the problem is that the marketing is better than the experience.

Geoffery: So how do I shift that then? Because I totally agree with you that if I look at even my current business, that's the fall-off. People love me when I first show up. They come in, they have a fantastic experience, right?

Dean: Yes.

Geoffery: Then it's the after that they're just like, "So there's nothing else or..." You know?

Dean: Right.

Geoffery: So how would I go about... Because you hit just on a major point here, Dean. I'm telling you this is a game changer, this thing you're talking about right now.

Dean: That's why I asked you at the very beginning, the question I asked you was are you getting paid a bounty or an ongoing revenue?

Geoffery: Ah. Yes.

Dean: Because if you're just getting paid a bounty, it doesn't matter to you. That would make sense as the rules of the game, that there's no incentive for you for them to stay.

Geoffery: Correct.

Dean: So because-

Geoffery: But since that's not the case, yeah.

Dean: Because you've got an opportunity, the real thing would be to get to a point where you build up a bunch of raving fans who stay and are successful and tell other people and grow themselves every month. So now you're doing everything you're doing out front, but there's somebody there minding the store and growing them the way that they need to. The only way that that help happens is when you direct your abilities to provide and create capabilities for them to get the outcomes that you know how to get. So you're saying with your skillset, right? You take one business, you take a sanitation company, company that does commercial cleaning, or you take a normal commercial cleaning company, and you show them how to create, how to use this sanitization model as a way to differentiate their business. Now you've got a tool that's going to be able to be syndicated all across the world for companies that do sanitation, right?

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: So everywhere offices are cleaned, the new thing is that cleaning isn't enough. Now it's safe. So if you're showing these cleaning companies how to position themselves as safe workplace insurance, and they're doing it through those tools, that's a win.

Geoffery: Yeah. Yes. Okay, so then it's interesting, because now a big question I had for you at the beginning, as far as how would you use the... That's going to handle itself, because that's my regular path.

Dean: Well, the podcast is going to be able to-

Geoffery: That's easy.

Dean: The podcast is going to be demonstrating, it's going to be about people using these same things. If you look at... So I do the Listing Agent Lifestyle Podcast, which is very similar to the More Cheese, Less Whiskers Podcast in that both outwardly-focused serving podcasts. They're not me coming up with stuff and doing monologues teaching tricks. It's me serving by helping people, giving my best insight after 32 years of doing this, condensed to how that applies to their business.

Geoffery: Right. Right.

Dean: I've been focused on the profit activators for a long time now. I'll say the first 10 years of it was unconsciously, and the last 15 years has been consciously applying the profit activators. So I feel a lot of ways like that Farmers Insurance. We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. I've seen all how this applies to so many different businesses.

Geoffery: Yeah. That totally makes sense. So then in looking at the... For example, my buddy created a lead generation program, that is specifically designed for products or services that are $1,000 or more. Okay? We've proved it out, great success. Some people thousand times-ing their investment in it, so it's proved out. It works. It's just now taking that and just directing it to even more niche than that, other than just the fact that it's niched to $1,000 or more products or services. Would we need to niche it any more specifically than that?

Dean: Well, how does that help a... Give me an example, three different examples of how that's worked with products or services over $1,000?

Geoffery: Sorry, give you three? Okay. So one-

Dean: Yeah, just so I can get a sense of the flavor of what you're talking about.

Geoffery: Sure. Yeah. So this one lady, she does health counseling, like everything from vitamins and the whole thing. So her program starts at around $1,000. So she applied the lead generation process that my buddy created. So there's Facebook ads. Then once they come through, what to do, the hook, story, offer process, etc.

Dean: Yes, okay.

Geoffery: Yeah. So she was successful in that. She was, for the first time ever, starting to close people at $1,000, utilizing a lead generation process versus the other ways that she did it, speaking at different places and all that.

Dean: Yes, okay. Give me another example.

Geoffery: Okay. Another example. Oh, another example was a lady that she had really great success, because she actually even taught some other people how to utilize the system, but there's a car club, and I guess they sell cars in between each other or something like this. So she used the same process to find people that were interested in those models of cars. That created the leads, led them into the club, and then created transactions that way. So that was another one. She was kind of a-

Dean: Seems like a pretty unique thing.

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: Then give me one more, just so I have a frame here.

Geoffery: Sure. Let's see if I can think of another person that shared. There was a gentleman that's a coach. So he does spiritual coaching as an idea. So his programs as well, he tossed out a program for 9.97 per month and for this program. So he takes people and helps them to expand their spiritual awareness and living a more spiritual life, that kind of an idea. So that's pretty niche as well too, actually.

Dean: Yeah. So when I look at those, when you look at the thing, there's a different thing where if you get a business that is a spiritual coach or whatever, there's some sense of... Is he serving people in a local area, or is he serving people from anywhere?

Geoffery: Ah, good question. I'm not sure. I think it's a combination of both, actually, Dean.

Dean: The health counseling, I imagine, would be local, right?

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: If you look at a chiropractor or somebody, a health practitioner doing some kind of a local business like that, that kind of situation is the one that you would look at as if you figured out how this health practitioner could get people in the 10-mile zone around their office, that that system could be used by health practitioners all around the country. That's what I'm talking about, that now you've got an advantage that's not just these tools, but it's this health counseling, client-getting system that you're promoting, right? And that's-

Geoffery: Yeah.

Dean: The other benefit of it is that you can get extra money by packaging, bundling your software with the hardware.

Geoffery: Right. Right.

Dean: The implementation and the setting up, that now you're not just getting the affiliate commission. You're getting the affiliate commission, which is paying all of your ongoing things, but you're also getting... You could charge two or three or four times what the tools cost for the insight and the help with the implementation of it.

Geoffery: Yeah, that totally makes sense. I can totally see that. Yeah, because the thing that they're all going to need, and if you select a niche, I just wonder if you bundle software with hardware for a niche. That's the basis of what we're doing.

Dean: Yes. Now that extra money then is now you're not just getting the affiliate commission, you're also getting money for creating a community of health practitioners that are doing whatever their unique thing is.

Geoffery: Exactly. Yeah.

Dean: Yeah, you think about -

Geoffery: That leads into the many of the -

Dean: But you take a niche like acupuncture, that's how when you think about how many acupuncturists there are in the United States even or just maybe even in Jamaica, how many-

Geoffery: Yeah, you never know.

Dean: Yeah. That's an interesting thought to think how big is something?

Geoffery: So that is definitely a qualifier to, as you said, to look for how big is the niche, right? So do we have a good collection, a good selection of prospects? And then taking their problems, showing how these things solve the problems, and then putting it all together, the software and the hardware together, and then catering to that niche and basically just really concentrating on creating a very strong after as well.

Dean: Get to 18,000. There's 18,000 licensed acupuncturists in the United States.

Geoffery: Wow.

Dean: So when you look at that, that's what I'm saying about that the thing is any other thought about, "We could do this, or we could do this, or this would apply for them," is entertainment. The disciplined execution of solving a problem for acupuncturists and not stopping until you introduce this idea to all 18,000 acupuncturists and either get a yes or a no from them, that that is... If you were to put the blinders on and do that for six months, say, or a year, that year one is about that, that you're going full-on into the acupuncture world, and you're going to completely build that up so that you can then... Once you've solved the problem, it's mature, you've shown somebody else how to do it, and that business is growing itself, then you can move on to the chiropodists.

Geoffery: Exactly.

Dean: Exactly. Right.

Geoffery: Yeah, because to be thorough in it, there's no one that will touch you.

Dean: That's what I'm saying.

Geoffery: After a period of time, yeah.

Dean: That's my point, and it's easier to reach them that way. Those are visible prospects. There's 18,000 people. They're licensed. They have to be licensed, public records. You can find out who they are.

Geoffery: Yeah. Wow. So this is awesome. I know we're at our time too.

Dean: Time flies.

Geoffery: No kidding, man. What I've got from this, the takeaways, man, that variety for entertainment, not sustainment.

Dean: Right?

Geoffery: That statement was so... That's a major thing. The other thing here is that you concentrate on the after. 

Dean: Yes.

Geoffery: Right? The way how I can concentrate on the after, and the after of this, get out from... Set up things so that, yes, that might be my superpower to be out in front of the tent, right?

Dean: Yeah.

Geoffery: But to set up things where we've put the time and effort in to creating what's inside the tent.

Dean: Well, this is the difference. If I say to you if we were to stay on the line here indefinitely and we're just to sit here right now and not get off the phone, how long could you stay on the phone here until your business was in a little bit of trouble?

Geoffery: Well, actually, it may be a few hours. It's like-

Dean: No, I mean the thing is does your... This is where it gets is that how much of your monthly income, your monthly revenue-

Geoffery: Oh, I see what you mean. Okay, I misunderstood the question, yeah.

Dean: ... is coming without you being involved in it?

Geoffery: Oh yeah.

Dean: How much is-

Geoffery: There's nothing that's set up well enough right now to actually sustain me that way, right? Yeah.

Dean: That's the point. So the biggest lesson, man, if I could just get enough people to think this way, that the path to freedom is recurring revenue.

Geoffery: Yes.

Dean: If you can just wrangle yourself long enough to get up a sustaining amount of passive recurring revenue, that's going to give you all the freedom to entertain yourself and do it again. But you're coming from a position. You come in a position of everything's handled. Now you're looking for what's truly the best opportunity, rather than that you have to hustle and grind to bring in money this month to stay in the game.

Geoffery: Right. Right. So yeah, this is the thing here is that putting attention on working that so that we have something that can be clicked into automatic, in a sense, where it's recurring revenue, doing a membership model, in one aspect.

Dean: If that's not you, then you need to find someone who can do that. Find someone who wants to get to know the acupuncturists and solve their problems and figure out the marketing stuff for them so at least... You got to have somebody in the tent to make stay. You can still get out and push people into the tent, but as long as you've taken the initiative or the leadership to set somebody up inside the tent, to make sure that the people you bring in are going to benefit and stay, that's the real, that's the advantage.

Geoffery: That is the real deal. Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Geoffery: That is so true. Wow. Okay. It's interesting, because what you come in... I've noticed this with your shows anyways is what somebody comes in with, as far as what they think they're coming in for, is not necessarily the thing that they leave with. It's definitely the truth for me. The last thing you just said there is so key. It's like, look, there's a lot of great people out there that their area of focus is on inside of the tent, right?

Dean: Yeah.

Geoffery: So it is, like just partner up with them. Everybody, specifically the clients are better off from that, versus giving only one part of the puzzle.

Dean: That's right. That's exactly right.

Geoffery: Wow.

Dean: But you hit it on the head to come in thinking, "How do I monetize a podcast?" and you go out as the world's leading authority in helping chiropodists grow their business.

Geoffery: Exactly. I know. Wow. But the millions of lessons in there, and I just think that this is just so amazing. I love your show, Dean, because it's so organic, right? There's just a fluidity that happens and how people come out the other end getting-

Dean: Right, it doesn't feel like a show.

Geoffery: Yeah, it doesn't feel like a show, and it really has a great takeaway for everybody and I think a lot for the person that's the guest. But even listening to them, the amount of - I've taken. So this one here, I can't wait to go over my notes on this.

Dean: Awesome.

Geoffery: Yeah, because since we're in the infancy, the beginning, right? This is the time to make some of these types of decisions. Like what's the long play? We want to be the people that have a full tent operating, and people don't want to leave. Once it's organized and set, it's no big deal for me to be hosting a podcast, because quite honestly, that's not the big deal really.

Dean: That's exactly right. That's it. So there.

Geoffery: Dude, this is fantastic. Fantastic.

Dean: I love it.

Geoffery: Thank you so much.

Dean: I enjoyed that. I'll look forward to staying in touch, hearing the updates.

Geoffery: I definitely will keep you updated as we move forward, and thank you very much, Dean. I so appreciate this.

Dean: Perfect, Geoffrey. Have a great day.

Geoffery: All right. You too. Thanks again. Bye bye.

Dean: Thanks, bye.

There we have it, another great episode. Thanks for listening, and if you want to continue the conversation, want to go deeper in how the eight profit activators can apply to your business, two things you can do. Right now, you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com, and you can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book, and you can listen to the back episodes, of course, if you're just listening here on iTunes.

Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the eight profit activators are part of the Breakthrough DNA process. You can download a book and a scorecard and watch a video all about the eight profit activators at Breakthroughdna.com. That's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business. That's really the way we think about Breakthrough DNA, as an operating system that you can overlay on your existing business and immediately look for insights there. So that's it for this week. Have a great week, and we will be back next time with another episode of More Cheese, Less Whiskers.