Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers Podcast, we're talking with another Canadian, Ginny Campbell.

Ginny's a life coach who left a career in television production to pivot to do something that really suits her, and meets what she wanted for her late-career, and she's now able and equipped to help other women going through the same thing.

She's built up a nice list of 2300 people who are paying attention to her emails, so in our call today, we talked about how to engage with those people and really get the conversation going.

This is universally applicable, So if you're in that kind of a situation, you're going to get a lot out of this episode.

Show Links:
ProfitActivatorScore.com
BreakthroughDNA.com
EmailMastery.com

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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 202

 

Dean: Ginny.

Ginny: Is that Dean?

Dean: That's me.

Ginny: Dean? Dean.

Dean: How are you?

Ginny: Dean, this is a real treat, thank you so much.

Dean: Well, I'm excited. It's my favorite thing, I'm in my favorite evil scheme hatching chair, I've got my bottle of water right here, and I'm fully hydrated.

Ginny: Good.

Dean: Fully hydrated and ready for scheming.

Ginny: I love it.

Dean: So, what are we going to scheme about today?

Ginny: Scheming about how to get the women who are on my email list, how to get them to interact with me and to take me up on a free discovery or coaching call. Checking in with them, where are you at, where would you like to be, and how do we fill in the gap and get you moving forward?

Dean: Oh, I like it so far. So, tell me about what you've been doing, what you help people with, and how it all works kind of thing.

Ginny: So, my coaching, my business is called Coaching with Ginny, and I started this three years ago. I started it in my late 50s. I had a fabulous career in television production, where I'd worked my way up to a very senior position, but along the way I experienced what is quite common, living in a state of overwhelm and pretty close to burning myself out.

So, it had always been in the back of my mind that I wanted to end my career doing something that was a little more life-affirming and positive, and throughout my career the thing that I loved to do the most was to mentor and coach other colleagues and team members, to see and create a path forward for themselves. We often have a negative voice going on in our head. "Oh, we can't do that, there's no way," and I would, through support and resources, show them how they could, and then they would take off and quickly embrace new challenges and work their way up in their career.

So, after deciding to leave my career in television production, after a much needed rest I did some training, got certified to be a life coach, and since then have been coaching women who are over 50, who are looking to make a change.

Dean: That's great. So, where do you live?

Ginny: I'm in Toronto, Canada.

Dean: Okay, yeah, you sounded Canadian, that's great. I can always spot a fellow Canadian, as I'm sure you can.

Ginny: Yes.

Dean: Tell be about your television production background. What was your career doing?

Ginny: Way back when, when I finished university, I worked in the live arts. I worked being a tour manager for a ballet company, and then I moved back home to Toronto because I heard you could make a living in TV, because live arts, it's challenging. So, I worked my way up, Dean. I started off as a production assistant, as most people do. Had the good fortune of working with a company that produced a lot of shows for the Showtime cable network.

So I set my path. I went and worked in accounting, learned all about union shows and regulation. I then worked on shows for Discovery Channel, where I was a line producer. And a line producer is someone who is responsible, who's a problem solver, puts fires out-

Dean: It sounds like there's a lot of attention to detail in a line producer role.

Ginny: And human resources, so it's scheduling and budgets, and then problem solving and making sure the team in the field has what they need to produce the best possible content.

Dean: I got you. Wow, and you did that for... How many years did you do that?

Ginny: Over 20.

Dean: Wow, okay.

Ginny: 20 years. So then, near the end of my career, I took a corporate position where I was overseeing productions, which was also super interesting and I learned a lot, and then I realized I was ready for a change, which is what I coach a lot of my clients about. They want to make a change, and it's just how to do it.

Dean: Is Toronto still a major production center?

Ginny: For sure, yep.

Dean: Yeah, okay, and Vancouver.

Ginny: Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, yeah. And I was just talking to a producer friend and was happy to hear that production is starting up again.

Dean: Oh wow, nice.

Ginny: Because obviously they shut down with the pandemic.

Dean: Yeah, right, right. Okay, so you've had kind of a driving, corporate career, I could see how that could be taxing too, energetically. So, with your coaching business now, how do you find people to work with now? You mentioned you have a list, an email list, but tell me about your business there. How many people are on your list, or how many clients do you work with? What's the scope of that?

Ginny: Sure. I built my list with a Facebook ad, which had the headline Slam the Door. It was about overwhelm, being awake at 2:00 AM and counting sheep. So, that has been successful in driving traffic to my opt-in page, and in exchange for their email, I send them my PDF guide on managing your overwhelm with five easy tips that you can use anywhere. So, I built my list. To date, my clients have all come from my personal contacts, and funny enough, a lot of my clients used to work for me, which is kind of cool.

Dean: Yeah, that's nice, because they looked at you as you kind of escaped, and now you're helping them maybe do the same. That's a good thing, right? You've got experience. It's always reassuring to have a life coach with some experience, compared to a 22-year-old life coach, is a different kind of thing. Yes, so are you still running the Facebook ad? How much does it cost you to generate a lead, let's call it? An opt-in.

Ginny: So, most recently... The Facebook ad was super successful at the beginning of this year, and then the numbers started to go down. So, at its peak activity, I was getting an opt-in for less than 10 cents, and then-

Dean: Nice, look at you, wow.

Ginny: So I don't know, people tell me I was lucky out of the gate.

Dean: Yeah, that's very crazy.

Ginny: More recently it was four or five dollars, so I put a hold on it and I'm creating a new ad. Or actually, what I'm going to do is take the content but try new images with it, and see how that-

Dean: How many have you built up to? How many people on that list now?

Ginny: So, I have 2,300.

Dean: Okay. Oh, that's great, good for you. So, that's a good foundation. Now, when they opt-in, what's the engagement? Where are you steering that? Where does it lead, how do people go through the process of seeing your ad, opting in, and then engaging with you? What's the-

Ginny: Yes. They get the opt-in, and then they receive an email sequence of nine emails over 11 days, and those emails, the first one is a introduction, and then there are five emails that illustrate and spell out again the tips in my PDF guide, and then the last two emails are a call to action to get on a call with me.

Dean: Okay, and so when you put 100 people through that sequence, what outcome do you get? How many people will get on the phone with you?

Ginny: Right, so this is where things... It's not happening. I'm not getting... And I've tried different ways of doing this, but I am not getting the women on my list to take me up on my offer.

Dean: Okay, so after people go through these nine emails, is there a regular email that you send out to everybody? Are you doing a weekly newsletter or a weekly email, or anything to-

Ginny: Yes.

Dean: Okay, so what are you sending ongoing to these people?

Ginny: So, once a week they receive an email from me, and my emails are educational in that I am sharing or highlighting some new ideas around certain tips, such as doing a brain dump. It's also a lot of content just about the uneasiness of the world at the moment, so how to meditate and exercise, all the things that we know are helpful, but we often forget to do in times of stress. So, I have those going out, and in the email I offer the call. So, I will-

Dean: In every email?

Ginny: Yes, I tried the PS for a while, and then more recently I've included it in the body of the email.

Dean: Okay, and tell me how you word that when you're saying it, what you're offering them.

Ginny: So, if the email has discussed setting a fresh start for September, and let's pick something new to try, then my offer is, "Please share with me what you've decided to do, and if you want some help in figuring out something new you want to take on in September, please reach out and here's the link to my calendar app to set up a call. I'm here to support and help you."

Dean: Okay, right.

Ginny: So, that's what I've been doing.

Dean: Do you have stats on your... Do you see whether people are opening and reading your emails?

Ginny: Yes. The open rate went down in the summer. It was anywhere from 24 to 27, and sometimes the low 30s, and then I noticed mid-July to the end of August, it went down more to 19 or 20%.

Dean: Okay, that's great though, still. When you send it out each week, you've probably got five or six hundred people reading the email every week, so that's good, and if you did it over 30 days, you'd probably have 1,500 or so of them reading. So, that's good, so you've got some life in the list there.

Now, one of the things that I'm concerned about with the offer that you're making is that it seemed very non-specific and open ended, right? And it may be that that's a bigger step than somebody's willing to take just from that broadcast email. And so, one of the things that I use and talk about teaching, I have a Email Mastery program, and one of things that we talk about is an email super signature, and that's at the bottom of every email that I send.

So, I have three emails a week that go out, and then at the bottom of the email I say, "Plus, whenever you're ready, here are four ways that I can help you." One of those is be a guest on More Cheese Less Whiskers, which I imagine is exactly how we ended up here today. That you clicked on that-

Ginny: You bet, yes.

Dean: ... filled out the form and here we are, right? Now, part of the thing that can happen when you're just saying to people, "Hey, call me, I'm here to help if you've got any questions or anything I can help you with, I'm happy to brainstorm with you," or whatever. I've used the example of how our brains are wired to not want to take initiative, and that we don't want people to go out of their way. We don't want to impose on people, and you, as a fellow Canadian, understand that maybe more than most people, right?

If you ask somebody, "Would you like a cup of tea?" The most common response that we would get would be, "Are you having one? Because if you're having one, I'll have one, but don't boil the kettle for me," right? So, offering to do something one-on-one with somebody, or to give you a call or to get on your calendar is a big step for somebody initially, right? They don't know what this is going.

So, what I say to people is we take the hospitality approach. It's like if I brought you into my living room, and on the one hand what you're saying is, "Hey Ginny, I'm happy you're here, there's lots of stuff in the fridge. If you are hungry or thirsty, please feel free to help yourself," right? "Let me know if I can get you anything." That's kind of what we're saying, right? We want to always take the reactive position. It's better that you want somebody to say to you, "Oh, I'd love a cup of tea," so you could get to work and fix them a cup of tea, because nothing would make you happier, that's essentially what you're saying, right? You can be hospitable.

But we don't want to impose on people, so the better approach to this is if I brought you and I sat you in my living room and then I came out with a plate of freshly baked cookies-

Ginny: Right, of course.

Dean: ... and said to you, "Hey Ginny, would you like a cookie?" And of course, you're going to take a cookie because it would be awkward for you not to take the cookie. I clearly went out of the way to bring them over for you, right? So, you don't want to disappoint me, so you would take the cookie because it was offered to you, and it's not an imposition that way, right?

So, what we want to do is to take and make a very specific baby step that moves towards you being on the phone with somebody, without it being that big leap kind of thing. And that could be that you get several ladies to come on a call at one time, and being very specific is a big help here, right? So, if you were to pick a topic, if you were going to lead a discussion group or a group call, what would be something that you specialize in that would be good as an introduction in a group setting like that?

Ginny: This is great, thank you for those images. The fridge, the cookies of course. So Dean, I did try this, it was early on, it was probably April, and I think people were very frazzled with COVID.

Dean: Of course, yeah.

Ginny: So, what I have, which is almost ready to go, and a topic I love to discuss is leaving your comfort zone. So, I would like to run workshops or discussion groups about stretching your comfort zone.

Dean: This is the thing about coaching in general, when you're trying to keep an open framework, to be inclusive for a lot of people. Words like comfort zone and stretch your comfort zone or leave your comfort zone are so non-specific and-

Ginny: Yeah, I guess it would be around is there something you want to try, and you don't know how to start?

Dean: Right.

Ginny: Is that... I mean, that could be one-

Dean: Well, I would go even more specific. If you look at these ladies, how did you target your audience? They're all over 50, they're all in the greater Toronto area, and they all replied to your ad about-

Ginny: Yes, most of my audience, my list, is in the UK.

Dean: Oh, in the UK? Okay.

Ginny: Yes, which I find really interesting. With the Facebook ad and the marketing I've done, I've targeted the English speaking countries, and Coaching with Ginny, the vast majority of my audience is in the UK. They came to me because my ad is about overwhelm and not sleeping at night, and feeling the never-ending weight of demands on them. In my research and feedback, the top thing is time and not feeling like they're in control, and that they're tuckered out.

Dean: Right, okay.

Ginny: So I could work on those-

Dean: Great, now we're getting somewhere, right? If you think about specifically something about the time that they would definitely be interested in. What I'm suggesting is that we have a specific outcome as a trade off for the time invested in coming on this call, right? That it's not just this loose thing of stretching your comfort zone, but it's a specific outcome that would be on the path to that, or included in that.

Ginny: Yes, okay.

Dean: I'll give you an example. So, I do a lot of work with real estate agents, and just this morning I sent out an email, I'm doing a Zoom workshop on Thursday for realtors specifically, and the topic is multiplying your listings. So, we're going to cover topics about how to turn one listing into five transactions, and that very specific outcome is what we're focused on on this call, right?

So I sent out just a short list and said essentially, "Hi Ginny, I'm getting together with some people on Thursday to talk about multiplying your listings," and then just the quick invitation is, "Would you like to join us?" So, if you take that same sort of thing and said, "Hi Nancy, I'm getting together with some people on Thursday to share some practical daily time-saving strategies." Something that would be along that line, right? Carving out an extra hour a day, or two hours a day, or something that would be a benefit-oriented thing.

If somebody's going to come on and you're going to show them how to leverage two hours a day, that would be worth coming on to spend 50 minutes on, right?

Ginny: - , yes. I'm pausing because, I don't know, I would like to have tips of how you get two hours...

Dean: Well, there you go, so now this is part of thing, is that you-

Ginny: I'm thinking it's like 15, 20 minutes of your own sacred time to check in with yourself and things like that.

Dean: Right, exactly. That could be part of it. So, a lot of these things, what your opportunity is is because you're one of them, you're a little bit ahead of them in that you came to this realization in your 50s, that you started applying these things. So, you're at the point of being just a few years ahead of where you were then, right? They're coming into these things, they're crossing that threshold into 50 and realizing, "Holy cow, I've had my head down for 25 years, and this is where I am right now."

I imagine that you got caught up in that television production vortex, and next thing you know, it's 25 years later and you realize, "Holy cow, is this what I really want?" That sounds like what you described.

Ginny: Exactly, exactly, and how do you want to finish off your career or finish your business, or however. Okay, so I-

Dean: Do you have a podcast, Ginny?

Ginny: No, no.

Dean: No? Because that might be a good tool for you, actually, to have discussions about this. Right now, if you've got clients that you're working with that are getting results, documenting those and sharing those is going to be a beacon for people, give them hope that, "Wow, I was this and now I've got so much more clarity. It's better to explore that."

Ginny: That would be similar to what we're doing right now.

Dean: It would be exactly like what we're doing right now.

Ginny: Casual conversation with some insights and just sharing.

Dean: Yes.

Ginny: I have, Dean, thought about that. It's just figuring out my priorities, and my priority is to get my funnel working, so that it's generating clients. And I can see-

Dean: Yes, but here's the thing, is that that's where part of your funnel... It's not about so much your funnel. We'll talk about that in a second, but the fact that you have 2,300 ladies that 25 or 30% of them are reading your emails every time you send them out is that you just need a clearer, more specific path to getting with you. Instead of just the, "Hey, if there's anything I can help you with, here's my calendar, happy to brainstorm with you or talk about anything," where it's very open-ended, right?

I say that with complete respect that what you're doing is you want to be open and receptive for people, and you want them to know that, that I want you to reach out to me. That's really what you're saying, but what I'm pointing out to you is that you're putting the onus on them to be the initiator of the idea.

Ginny: Gotcha, yes, I see that.

Dean: Right. So, you want to be the leader, you want to be the leader and that way you're initiating things, right? So, that way you're taking them by the hand and you're pointing out the specific outcomes that you know they're going to want. Having your sense of if we were to say, "What are the outcomes that you could really help somebody journey through and get out on the other side?" If you think about the people... Have you successfully had people that you're working with? Do you have clients that you're working with?

Ginny: Yep, and they've had successes. I've had clients who wanted to pivot and move to a different area of the industry, again, in entertainment or in television production, and I've had clients who've been successful in that. And that's been a process of them going inward and taking care of themselves, and then going outward and looking for an opportunity, and that seems to always happen when one is feeling grounded and strong and healthy. Suddenly, you're lifting your head up and going, "Oh, there are opportunities around me."

And I've helped women return to work after taking leave of absences, and a woman who just kind of wanted to check in and rediscover herself after, as you called it so aptly, the vortex, and her outcome was that she is content. And for her, that was huge. To be content where she is in her life, the job she has, and that work was not the only thing in her life. So, those are the sorts of things, and right now I'm working with a few women who, again, are interested in pivoting and looking for new opportunities on the work front.

Dean: Yeah, yeah. And so if that's kind of the common thing that you're helping them navigate, that would be a really great topic to maybe start a discussion with.

Ginny: The topic being how to-

Dean: The topic being, yeah, pivoting, however you would word that, what they did actually, right?

Ginny: Looking for new opportunities.

Ginny: Okay.

Dean: Yeah, that would be the... Because it's late-game pivot kind of thing, right? They've built... And it takes a lot. You have to totally be aware and empathize with the fact that it takes a lot to get out of that gravitational pull of that vortex that somebody's in, that you've been just head down for so long, there's so much responsibility around it. I mean, when your identity is wrapped up in that, you're an established line producer, right? That's what you are, and that takes some conscious effort to break free of that, to move in the direction that you really want to.

Ginny: Right.

Dean: So that, I think, might be a good thing. So I think that a combination of... The reason I say about the podcast is it sounds like your best work is done conversationally with people, right?

That would be valuable for people, to hear other people going through the same thing. They can relate to that.

Ginny: Okay, I like it, I think that's a great idea, and one I will revisit. Yes, because there's certainly opportunity for that.

Dean: Yeah. Well, what it also does, I'll just let you in on the trickle down effect of how it all works. So first of all, if you did a podcast similar to what we're doing here, that the way that this fits into my world, everything I do is all about applying the eight profit activators to my business and other businesses, right? So, profit activator one, select a single target market. You've got that, career women over 50 who want to make a change or get more fulfilling or pivot, or do whatever that is. But there's your specific target.

Profit activator two is your compelling offer that gets them to identify themselves, right? So, you put out the PDF and ladies, because of the title and because of that, it resonates with them and they say, "Yes, I want that." And now you've built up this list of 2,300 ladies that are in your profit activator three right now.

Profit activator three is like a holding area, and the whole purpose of it is to educate and motivate people, so that when you make an offer in profit activator four, that they are moving forward and that then puts them into your during unit, where you can help them, work with them, collaborate with them on whatever outcome they want. So, where we often get caught up is in this stagnation in profit activator three, where there's a lot of people in there, but then there's not the throughput of it, right?

So, the two opportunities that you have are immediately when somebody is opting in, rather than sending a sequence with them, rather than sending just nine emails in a sequence, that they all get the same thing, is to try and engage with them, welcome them right at the beginning and engage, see if they're willing to engage in a dialog.

Ginny: Right.

Dean: So, what we're looking for is we're looking five star prospects, people who are willing to engage in a dialog, friendly and cooperative, they know what they want, they're ready to get it, and they'd like you to help them. They have to be all five of those in order for somebody to collaborate with you as a coach.

So, rather than sending a sequence of emails and then at the end of the sequence just inviting people to reach out to you, what would be great is to send a personal email the morning after they opt-in and say, "Hi Ginny, welcome aboard," and then ask them a question that sees if they're willing to engage in a dialog.

Ginny: And what sort of question might that be?

Dean: That's what we can figure out right now. So, when somebody opts-in for my Email Mastery book, the example I'll give you, I was running full page ads in Success Magazine, people come opt-in for the book, and then I would send them an email in the morning after and say, "Hi Ginny, welcome aboard, you're one of the first to download Email Mastery. What business are you in?" Just a simple, short question like that.

We run this all the time on our real estate side as people come to download one of our guides, the guide to Winterhaven house prices. We would send an email, "Hi Ginny, welcome aboard. Are you an investor or are you looking for a house to live in?" Something that is just short, personal, and expecting a reply. I say to people the best way to imagine it is to imagine that your opt-in, they press submit to download my PDF, as soon as they do that, imagine that they're magically transported right to your office and they are knocking on the door.

They poke their head in and they say, "Hi, I'm here about the Email Mastery book," or, "I'm here about whatever your opt-in was," and what would you say to that person in that moment if they were really standing there? What would be a question that you would want to know? "Hi. Oh, welcome aboard."

Ginny: I guess I would want to maybe know what their most pressing concern is?

Dean: Well, that's a little hard right out of the gate, right?

Ginny: It's a bit much right out of the...

Dean: It's a bit much, yeah. So, you want to engage with them, right? Because all we're looking to do is see if they're ready to engage. What business are you in might be a good start, or what...

Ginny: Right.

Dean: What do you do? Or what do you do for work, or what kind of work do you do? I have a music producer that uses a question of, "Hey Ginny, welcome aboard. Is there somewhere online I can listen to your music?"

Ginny: Oh, yeah.

Dean: Right, so you're just engaging with them. Sometimes a sorting question, or something that would be appropriate. We have a book called The Adult Acne Cure, and when people opt-in for that the question is, "Hi Ginny, welcome aboard. How often do you have breakouts?"

Ginny: Right, so they're opting in-

Dean: Which is a reasonable question, right? So, you want to link it to what they're opting in for.

Ginny: Yeah, I get it. So they're opting in because I'm offering a guide to help them with their overwhelm, a practical guide.

Dean: Exactly. Yeah, and so what would be some... This is where you brainstorm, and the way that this all plays out is that you end up really just taking some time to think through what would be a reasonable question that you would ask somebody like that, right? What would be a natural thing? And the way I do these, I don't ever... Even though these nine word emails and these emails sound like they just roll off your tongue, it's deceptive because it seems like you couldn't have taken very long to figure that out.

It should just come off the top of your head, but often it's as a result of just sitting for 30 minutes and thinking, and trying on that conversation. And re-wording and wording and getting it just... It's almost like a lyrical kind of quality to them, right? That they seem natural.

Ginny: Yes, I tried... So, I will do some brainstorming around that. I like that idea. So, this would be automated in that it's-

Dean: Yes.

Ginny: Yes, but it's outside of the email sequence.

Dean: Yeah, I think it would be like your morning after. We send it out so it goes out at 8:00 the morning after the day you opt-in.

Ginny: Right, and do you ever, in that, include a little video or picture of yourself?

Dean: You could. Typically, what we'll do is on the initial email that goes out, we'll have more information. I think a really good welcome email is as soon as they download, with other things for them to click on, to really get the lay of the land, but also that they know what you actually do. They know what the next steps are, rather than waiting for seven days to get what the next step is. You want to accommodate people, so that they can take the next step right now.

Ginny: Exactly. Those who are ready, there's the option of do you want to get on a call, or if you want to go check out some of my videos or my blog, yeah. So that, but then this email you're talking about, which I love, is then it's the next morning, it's short, concise, to the point.

Dean: It's modeling exactly what you would do if we could count on you to do it. It would be nice if everybody who opted in, that you came in in the morning and the first thing you did was write a personal note to welcome people.

Ginny: Right.

Dean: Yeah.

Ginny: Okay. 

Dean: And that's great, because what we're looking for is to get to a point where 20 or 25% of the people who come in will reply to your message.

Ginny: And then they would get pegged in some way, in that they respond.

Dean: Yes, absolutely, that they're responsive, yes. So when they reply, then... So for Email Mastery, I would say, "What business are you in?" And you would say, "Well, I'm a life coach." I'd say, "Oh, that's amazing. Have you tried a nine word email yet?" Because it was about the nine word email that people would opt-in. And, "Have you tried a nine word email yet?" And you would say, "No, not yet, I've heard about it," or, "I'm reading about it now," or, "Oh yeah, I tried it, and you won't believe what happened," or, "I was wondering about subject lines."

And then I would say to people, "Well, I'm getting together with some people on Thursday to brainstorm nine words emails and subject lines. Would you like to join us?" We're always leading to an offer.

Ginny: I see, yep, I get it. So then, back to my weekly emails where I'm sharing knowledge and motivating, hopefully, -, is that the correct term here? Let me look at the scorecard. Educate and motivate. Then in my email, I have after the signature, "If you are ready, here's what you can..." The super signature. When you are ready, that's what I would say.

Dean: That's what we always say, yeah, exactly. You always want to know, because the only two time timeframes, Ginny, are now or not now, and we always want for it to be the possibility that it's now. We don't want to have to depend that they actually open the email on the day that you're giving them the opportunity to do something. We want that to be every day, because not everybody opens every email, right? So they may open the one right before and have enjoyed it, and then they missed the one where you made the offer, and then they picked up again and it didn't have the offer.

So, we want to always have the opportunity for it to be now, and you anchor that for people. They get used to seeing this, that whenever you're ready is empowering words, right? It's like, "I'm not pushing you into this," it's a responsibility word, right? I'm ready right now to help you get the help and the benefit that you want.

Ginny: And Dean, I know your emails are very straightforward. What are your thoughts about having a call button in that super signature, where they click here and that then takes them to the calendar app, so they can book their call?

Dean: Well, I always like to make things easy. I'd like people to reply to something first, and then send them a link to the calendar, if that makes sense.

Ginny: Ah, so reply, "Yes, I'm ready," and then I would...

Dean: Yeah.

Ginny: I got you, okay.

Dean: Right,  unless it's something like what we did. They way you got here was we do have a link right to the Be a Guest page of More Cheese Less Whiskers in the email, right? So you just needed to click on that, and that took you to the Be a Guest page, and you filled it out. How long have you been in my world here? How long have you been getting my emails?

Ginny: Two and a half years.

Dean: Okay, and here we are.

Ginny: And I've reached out to you a couple of times about some of your offerings, the email course and whatnot. And yeah, so this one I thought, "Well, I'm just going to fill this out and see what happens."

Dean: There you are.

Ginny: And guess what happened?

Dean: And look what happened, here we are. Instant clarity.

Ginny: Yes. So, having that then getting them to respond, "Yes, I am ready," and I then I write back to them, or have a email ready that -.

Dean: Well, they're masking it. It's not saying, "Yes, I'm ready," they're saying, "I'd like that cookie." You're asking them specific cookies, right? You're not making them make anything up, right? You're not saying, "Hey, can I get you anything," because if I said that to you, there's no way in a million years, Ginny, that you would say, "You know what? Would you bake me some cookies?"

Ginny: Yeah, so they're reaching for a cookie?

Dean: So that's why if I say to you, "Would you like a cookie?" Then they say, "Yeah. Oh, that looks delicious, yes." So, you're baking the cookie in advance. You're saying, "I'm getting together with some ladies on Thursday to talk about late career pivots. If you're considering making a change, we're going to talk about and I'm going to have Nancy on the call, if that's who made this change to talk about her experiences. Would you like to join us?"

Ginny: I see.

Dean: That's the specific kind of email that I'm talking about. So, now when they reply and say, "Oh, that sounds interesting, what are the details?" So you never give so many details that somebody is going to eliminate themselves from it, right? You want to find out who among these ladies is resonating with that message, so the fact that they don't have enough information to make the final decision on it, you're just gauging their interest in the idea of that.

Ginny: I see.

Dean: Then you know that you've hit a chord. If you send that out to 2,300 ladies and you get several replies, now you write the email that says, "Thanks for connecting, here's what I'm doing, and we're going to get together on Thursday at 3:00 PM, and here's the number to dial in," or you could do it by Zoom, or whatever it is. And that way, whether it's two ladies or 20 ladies, it doesn't matter, because you would be happy either way, right?

Ginny: Yes, and the beauty of this is it's not calling it a webinar, because we're all on two webinars, or there's going to be a big push-

Dean: Yeah, exactly. You just focus on the benefit. "I'm getting together with some ladies on Thursday."

Ginny: And then at the end of that get together on Thursday, I would say, "If you want support, you want my help and support to make these changes, let's talk further."

Dean: That's exactly right.

Ginny: Okay. Well, this all sounds very doable, Dean, so I should get to it.

Dean: Oh, very exciting. I know, yeah. You can send that out, you could send that email out. I'm just looking... It's funny, just while I mentioned that I happened to send that one out today, I'm just looking, scrolling through while we're having the conversion. Doug says yes, Joanne says, "Yes, I'm in. I would love to join, tell me more. What's the cost?" It's a free workshop, so that's good.

So, it's all good. I think when you start sending out those things, you get a sense that you are properly reading, gauging the desires that they have, and you've got to be able to articulate them in a way that they say, "Wow, I was just thinking that. That's exactly what I need, yes."

Ginny: Right. Yes, and I did it, so you can do it, too.

Dean: Yeah, that's exactly right. They just feel like, "Wow, okay, so I'm in the right place. You can guide me through that jungle because you've already blazed a trail."

Ginny: Yes. Okay.

Dean: Well, this has been delightful, Ginny. Tell me what your recap would be here.

Ginny: My recap is that I have engagement in my list and that they're opening the emails. I get feedback that they are enjoying the emails, so my feedback here is that in my actions steps, is to rejig how I am making the offer to get on a call, and think about offering a cookie first and asking them to respond. "Whenever you are ready, here's how we can work together," or, "Here's how I can help you."

Dean: - Can help you, yes.

Ginny: Think about-

Dean: See how that switched? "Here's how we can work together," is different than, "How I can help you?" Got to keep it focused on them and the benefit, right?

Ginny: And then to think about conversational, like this podcast, and then to also make the offer about getting together next Thursday, and just keep doing that.

Dean: I love it, it's so good. This was fun.

Ginny: Yes, this has been super helpful.

Dean: Good, I'm glad, and I hope you will keep me posted on what happens.

Ginny: Yes, I will.

Dean: Okay, I love it. Well, there we go, this has been very helpful, I think, for a lot of people who, just like you, might be in that same situation wondering, "I've got some engagement, what do I do?" And now because we talked about it, other people will have some clarity too, so thank you for playing.

Ginny: Thank you very much.

Dean: Thanks, Ginny. I'll talk to you soon.

Ginny: Bye bye.

Dean: Bye.

And there we have it, another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation and go deeper in how the eight profit activators can apply to your business, two things you can do. Right now, you can go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com and you can download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book, and you can listen to the back episodes of course, if you're just listening here on iTunes.

Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the eight profit activators are part of the Breakthrough DNA process, and you can download a book and a scorecard and watch a video all about the eight profit activators at BreakthroughDNA.com. And that's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business. That's really the way we think about Breakthrough DNA, as an operating system that you can overlay on your existing business, and immediately look for insights there.

So, that's it for this week. Have a great week, and we'll be back next time with another episode of More Cheese Less Whiskers.