Welcome to the MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com podcast. Today we're talking with Kelly Krueger. Kelly has a really cool new website she's created called IngeniousBaby.com where she has a really great idea of helping parents of newborn to three year olds really maximize the development of their child in that critical period.
We talked a lot about the outcomes that someone would get if they went down the right path with their baby, and what's the worst outcome that could happen, to establish where we want to help parents go, and what are the opportunity and pitfalls.
As a new business, she was very curious to how monetize this new community and what model to use, so we explored some of the different options, how to build a great foundation, and who might be interested in sponsoring or having access to this community.
It’s a great episode for anyone starting to think about this challenge.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 076
Dean: Kelly Krueger.
Kelly: Hi.
Dean: How are you?
Kelly: Good. How are you?
Dean: I'm good. I'm very excited. I'm looking forward to hearing all about what you're up to.
Kelly: Right.
Dean: We are ... We're recording right now. We got the whole hour to plot some usable schemes for you, so it's a good thing if you could kind of tell me a little bit about the background, about what you're up to, and where you think we might be able to focus on creating breakthrough for us today.
Kelly: Yeah. So I started this website just very recently, ingeniousbaby.com, which is essentially a site of well sourced information and interviews for parents of zero to five, to go up a little bit further, of how to maximize your child's potential, particularly in terms of raising their IQ.
Dean: Kelly, I'm going to stop you for just a second. You sound sort of very muffled or something. I don't know what-
Kelly: Muffled? Okay.
Dean: That sounds a little bit better.
Kelly: Is this better now?
Dean: Yes, it is. Absolutely.
Kelly: I couldn't find my earpiece this morning so I was talking regular.
Dean: This is great. You sound like a whole different person.
Kelly: Oh, good. Okay.
Dean: Perfect. There we go.
Kelly: Okay. Good. Yeah, so I started this website. It's called ingeniousbaby.com and it's a site where I host informational interviews of parents zero to three, where you help maximize the baby's potential, because your child's brain is 90% developed by the time they're four and-
Dean: I read that on your site. That's pretty fascinating.
Kelly: Yeah, and so parents don't realize ... They're like, "Oh, it's just a baby," or "It's just preschool," but these are such important years, and just kind of educating people about what you do now will have an impact when they're in fourth grade or what not. Like if they're not learning or they're not moving correctly they could cause learning disabilities when they're in the fourth grade.
Basically it's just kind of interviewing experts in a number of different areas to help maximize their potential and increase their IQ and that will start when they are born. I've done about 10 to 15 interviews that ... I'm trying to get this following first, which I'm working on. I have a PR background and working on ... Which will take some time to get that installed and so forth. But then once I get the following, my question is how do I ... I have a couple of ideas to monetize it ... The best way do you think would be to monetize?
Dean: Okay. Here's the thing. What would be the best result that you could create for somebody that would be documented? When you look at it, part of the thing is how do we monetize always is a factor of how much result can we create and what is the result that we can create that would be so valuable for people that they would be willing to pay for that, and determines how much they'd be willing to pay for it.
Let's kind of look at it from a standpoint of what's the drive that is going to cause a parent or parents to pay money to give their child this outcome, and what is the best outcome that you could create. If we applied the money part of it and look at the actual outcome that we can create, I mean it's all ... There's a lot of ... In the early childhood development stuff there's ... It's kind of a moving sidewalk in a way that everybody is moving in that direction, everybody wants the best for their child, everybody wants to be the super parent and they feel a lot of pressure to not be the reason their kid gets screwed up kind of thing.
They don't want to get in the way or hold them back, right? There's a lot of that. There's all those both positive and negative emotions kind of at play there, so there's a lot of hyperbole built into that and a lot of very non-specific, non-provable things that can be shown to kind of give their kids every advantage. But if you're coming at it from a quantifiable outcome based position, what is that outcome that you could create for somebody?
If knowing what you know and having exposure to what you have exposure to ... If somebody were to place their infant child in your ... I don't want to say care, but under your guidance for the next three years, what would be the outcome that you could create for that child compared to somebody who was not placed under your guidance?
Kelly: That's an interesting question, because I mean sometimes these things you don't know until years later. I think it's about educating them ... It's a hard one, because it's really about the education information. I'm interviewing PhDs and well-known doctors and so forth, so it's getting access to that information easily, but sometimes you don't know your IQ or what not until a few years later, if they're going to have some kind of problem because they didn't crawl first.
Dean: Has there been any foundational research done to test these hypotheses? Because what you're ... When you're saying those things, you're saying it can add 20 points. Well, how do they know? How does that ... Do you know what I mean?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: What's documenting that? What's backing that up?
Kelly: Well, the people I'm ... Yeah, there's a lot of research based on it, but you could ... Like I say, anyone could Google that research. Actually the people I'm talking to are all PhDs. They do research themselves for example and publish many papers, so they are actually the people who are doing the research. Then I'm interviewing them about the research.
So I don't know ... That's a hard one. I mean that's why I don't know if I get a sponsorship for this only or if there is like ... I've seen these monthly box subscriptions or it could be an informational product or ... You know, based on the outcome of these interviews and their research and packaging that for the person, because they are doing the research. I don't know if that makes sense or if I'm-
Dean: Well, they are, but I mean in a sense, like even in the way we're describing it, right, we're kind of going back to what's the form and the function and the packaging of what we're going to monetize as opposed to what's the result that we're going to create. So I'm trying to initially ... The first part of any marketing, you know, monetizing, is the ... I call it the market dashing. Let's create the market for this. What is the exchange that's going to happen here?
What is the outcome, the product, the service or whatever it is that we're going to use to deliver that outcome, and then what is that worth to a parent, you know? It's all got to start with what's the advantage? If you were able to say that kids who follow this protocol have 20 point higher IQs than kids who don't follow this protocol, that-
Kelly: Yeah. I mean, for example, each person ... That's why I need to have a ... In each person's interview, for example like the baby sign language person, there's a ton of research on baby sign language and how that can increase their IQ by 12 points. If you eat certain foods, there's a lot of research on how that can increase your IQ because, you know ... And if you talk to your baby there's a lot of research ... I talk about all have IQ, but they're all different methods, but if you combine them all together then you have a package. But each person has a different ... They have research for each-
Dean: I get it. That's why I was wondering about the ... I'm getting a clearer picture now, that you're really a curator of these experts who all have different protocols. You're bringing ... You're kind of highlighting all kinds of different things for the parents, not that you've got one thing that you're trying to-
Kelly: There's not one thing I'm trying to bring. There's always going to be different places, but maybe the date and time ... Yeah, so each person will have ... They're all related to IQ, but they're all different activities and things you can do, but they're all in one place.
Dean: Okay. Okay. What attracted you to this? Why you and why this?
Kelly: Well, I'm a mom of two toddlers at the moment and I had read a book which initially started this whole thing about how ... It's called Making Them a Genius and it's this man who many years ago ... When his daughter was born he was like I'm going to make her genius, and he basically took very simple things, walking to the grocery store, everyday activities were always a learning opportunity, and she ended up having an IQ of 200. I thought that was really fascinating because-
Dean: Wow.
Kelly: Yeah. She's like one of the highest IQ people in the world. Even the people I'm interviewing now, like even the people that are in MENSA, they said anyone in the world can have a MENSA level IQ if you do certain things. It's the way that you educate your child or feed them or what not. So I thought that was really fascinating, how as a parent you have so much ... I think they said 50% is environment and 50% is genetics. So you have-
Dean: I was just going to ask you, how does it break down?
Kelly: About 50/50. So your environment is a huge impact on your child's ... Even just like using those 10,000 hour ... The experts said the more you have exposure ... It's not like you're forcing your child to do something, but like just natural, natural learning and giving them the opportunity to learn, and you can significantly raise your child's IQ and potential just by the things the parents are doing, and I think that was really fascinating.
People don't ... They just dismiss this period in particular for ... I'm going to get them into kindergarten, getting them to read, and it's really ... Laying the foundation before that is what's really important, so kind of communicating that. The head of MENSA, who I interviewed last week, saying how anyone can have a MENSA level IQ, and he did it-
Dean: Yeah. That's really fascinating. Okay. I'll buy into that. Then this newborn to three years old, that's your target right now?
Kelly: Yeah. I feel like it could go up to six really, because I feel like the brain by six years old ... Like I say, I'm averaging zero to three, but I could expand it a couple of years, because six is when people say it's-
Dean: It's too late?
Kelly: Not too late, but those are the crucial years. Not that I want to put a fear into the people, but it's an important time.
Dean: Yeah. It's kind of an interesting thing that universally this has always been the thing that parents are inherently kind of motivated to do, right? Provide the best for their kids. This modern thing now of ... As we kind of evolve technologically as a society and stuff, using technology and using things that are going to give kids an advantage, we want to kind of ... We have access to it, so we might as well use it, you know?
It's kind of an interesting thing, that if you're going to be kind of a curator of this, that there almost ... It feels like there has to be an overriding like the boundaries of this, like a curriculum based type of ... Not a curriculum based, but a principle based type of thing, right? That you're looking for things that have some commonalities, that fit in the same family, that are principle based kind of things, you know? Based on what you know so far, what would be sort of categories that would be applicable that you could effect?
Kelly: Yeah, I have those on my website. Nutrition is a big one. Movement is a big one. Reading, math and music, those are the areas I've identified as the ways that you can maximize the potential in those categories. The interviews are kind of broken out in those different categories, based on which thing they want to go to.
Dean: Okay. So you've got five basic things? It would be interesting to see how would you quantify where somebody is on this scale? If you were to say at the end of the three years ... The goal is to get to the end of the three years, and what would be the best outcome for these five things? Nutrition, if we got to three years and we looked at it, what would be the indication that you have failed as a parent shepherding them through those first three years?
No, I'm saying that that's an important part though, right, because it's either that we're talking about things that there's going to be kind of the quantifiable things and there's also qualitative things, right? When you look at it, if we think about nutrition, like if we were creating a scorecard for your child, that at that three year mark ... And I say that, what would be ... Because I'm sure there are situations where somebody has failed at that.
Kelly: Of course. Yeah. I mean it's really hard. I think it's hard to measure. There are so many things that are hard to measure, but in terms of nutrition, like if your kids are just only eating what they serve on nutritional kids' menu, like the mac and cheese and pizza and all that, they want to be eating healthy fats, whole foods, balanced ... The healthy fats really build brain development, so if your kids are eating ... You're being very diligent and you build the child's taste buds around six months, so if you start-
Dean: Yeah. That's up to you, but if the kids are ... Like if they're failing, then the kids will only eat mac and cheese and cookies or whatever, but you're failing. You are failing because you ... That's ... Really they're not the ones that are buying the food or preparing the food. You're putting everything in their hands that go into their mouth, so it's your failure, and you have to get it that they are ... It's a scorecard for them as much as for their child.
If you establish what that would be, what does failing look like, and then what would winning look like, like really transforming, what would be the thing that would be evident at three years if you are at the transforming level in nutrition with your three-year-old.
Kelly: The food affects everything. It affects behavior, sleep, the ability to learn and concentrate. They could be acting out because they're not eating the right foods, or their ability to learn and think and focus, because focus at that level is a really big one, then those are all an impact of food really.
Dean: Yeah. What be the protocol of a winning ... Or transforming with them nutritionally? If mac and cheese and cookies and apple juice are failing, then what would be winning? The opposite of those would be-
Kelly: Grains and fats, coconut oil and lean meats and fats and proteins. Just having a balanced diet is real whole food, like not eating anything processed really. It's particularly important for young children, because that's what helps with the brain development. So if they're eating and wanting these foods, and I could name the different foods, and there are certain foods that maybe are not as ... Like bone marrow is a great one for brain development. Eat that or liver. Those are extreme ones that are great, and all the vegetables, and just nothing really processed if you can. But people are busy and-
Dean: I get it. Yeah. On the movement side, what would be evidence that is failing on the movement side at three years old?
Kelly: A lot of people don't realize ... They think I want my kid to walk or crawl and they kind of force the kid ... Like they put them in the bouncers and the swings and things that helps entertain them, but what we really need to do is help them move naturally. You put them on the floor. They need to learn how to move and to roll and to sit up on their own, but if the parent kind of forces them to ... So they skip crawling so the parent is like, "Oh, walk, Johnny," and they want ... and they're so proud, "Oh, my child is walking early, nine months old," but you don't want to force those things, because if the child does not go through ... That's what helps build the building blocks of the brain.
If a child skips a milestone or they don't crawl or they don't do some of these things, in fourth grade they could have some kind of learning disability that could show up because the brain did not form in the layers that it should have done earlier on. There's a lot of research based on that, that you're not putting them in the bouncers too long, you're not putting them in the car seat. You let them ... Just giving them free movement. The physical movement helps develop the brain essentially. That's what the early years ... That's essentially ... Yeah.
Dean: I love it. Okay. That kind of thing ... Where I'm going with this is to ... I don't know if you've seen my Profit Activator Scorecard that we have?
Kelly: Yes.
Dean: In the scorecard itself at profitactivatorscore.com we an online version where you can go through and pick the statement that matches where you are right now, and the rating system is a one through 12 rating system, but it's divided into four columns. So if you look at it the way we do it with the eight mindsets or the eight profit activators, so selecting a single-target market, in column one is failing on that. Like we just take anybody that shows up, where we're not really ... We cast as wide a net as possible because any business is good business kind of thing, versus transforming ... In column four is that we have a very specific largest check client that we're focused on attracting.
We've got a very specific target market, and then everywhere in between. So we kind of divide it so that each column has three numbers inside of it. Column one would be one, two, three. Column two is four, five, and six. Column three is seven, eight, and nine. Column four is 10, 11, 12, so you can be in column one, but close to column two kind of thing, where you're staying at that column one plus, which would give yourself a three.
But we have people do is rate where they are now, but where they want to be as their aspiration goal, right? They may say, "Okay, I'm at a three now, but I want to be a 10 in this." It helps people identify where they are and where the gap is.
As a diagnostic tool, it's a great conversation starter for us, because what I look for when I'm reading these scorecards is that I see people who are crystal clear on who they want to attract as a target audience, and then I look down at profit activator five, which is delivering a dream come true result, and I look for people who are very high on that, who can get a result for people if they have people to work with, but then they are low on profit activator two, three or four, where they don't know how to generate leads or educate and motivate or convert those leads.
So if I can take somebody who knows ... They know who they want to attract and they get great results for them once they find them, but they can't generate leads or convert them, that's the kind of person where I can help them the best with that.
What this scorecard like this may do is create ... You may find that there is ... If you could find three other areas to get down to like eight total things where ... And some of them could be mindset ones, where the parents are ... What's their mindset that they ... It would be good for you if people believe that they can make a difference in their zero to three-year-old and that they're committed to giving their child every advantage that they can versus somebody who thinks we didn't have any of this stuff, we grew up fine. Kids are kids. They're going to figure it out. It's all just a bunch of fuss to try and overwhelm things.
It's good for you to know that the person who sounds more like the first person that I described is a better fit for what you're trying to do. They're buying into this.
Kelly: Yeah, of course. It's probably an older parent most likely, an older parent or a foreign ... Foreign parents are a market that-
Dean: Yeah. It's really interesting, because I think one of the best ads on television right now is the Luvs campaigns for their diapers. I don't know whether you've seen it, but they basically ... Pampers has the number one brand in the market, right? So a new parent wants to have the best for their child, and so they're going to only settle for Pampers or custom diapers or whatever.
But the Luvs campaign shows the juxtaposition between your first child and your next child, that it's like live and learn and then get Luvs. That's kind of ... They're giving up ... They're saying we're not got to try and convince the parents who are hellbent on having only the very best for their child that Luvs is just as good kind of thing. We admit ... Okay, go for it, live and learn, and then get Luvs. We're the diapers for people who realize that the kids are pooping in these diapers. It's not ... They're pooping in them.
Once you realize that it's good enough, then you realize that that's the right thing. But what we're appealing to are the Pampers parents in a way, right? The ones who are-
Kelly: The older first time parent. Yeah.
Dean: Yes, the first time parents who are high IQ, who have their ... You can picture them, who they are, that they want to give their kids an advantage. They think because they're smart and all this stuff that they can make a difference. That's who the audience is, and knowing that helps a lot, right?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: Yeah. So that helps you identify kind of who the target audience is. But then if you get these other things like the ... Whatever the other mindsets are here, if it's nutrition, movement, reading, math, music, and then there's a couple of other that are mindset things, that could be a really nice format for creating a community around.
Kelly: Yeah. There's communities of people around that are interested in different ... So many topics, all of them, but that was really ... The homeschooling parent might be interesting because they're ... Something like that. Yeah, that's who are the groups that would be interested in something like this.
Dean: Uh-huh (affirmative). When you start to kind of think of that, you have to realize is there an opportunity to create the audience and that the audience is the product that you're monetizing or you're creating the things that are available to the audience and that's what you're monetizing. Are you monetizing the access and endorsement or stamp of approval kind of thing, that everybody kind of buys into this. Is there a face to this brand? Is there somebody who is kind of the leader of it? Is it you or is it-
Kelly: Well, I'm the one doing it because I'm the mom of the two kids and that's them open to having-
Dean: I don't know what the ... Yeah, I don't know ... I mean is it ... It's fine if it's you, but somebody who is like the leader of this movement.
Kelly: I'm doing it because I have the two kids. I'm interested in this information, so I'm like if I'm talking with them anyway I might as well make it available to other people, because there are people that want to talk to anyone, have the questions, because I have the two kids of my own.
Dean: Yeah. Fantastic. When you look at that then, what's your aspiration for this as a business? What is it that ... As your kids now ... Is this something like ... I this going to be less appealing to you now or in five years from now as your kids are then going to be older and you're not in the midst of that zero to three group, like right now you've got toddlers and that's interesting to you, right?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: So that's your thing, but is this something that long-term are you interested in the zero to three age range for 10 years?
Kelly: Yeah. I think it's a really ... Because it's such an impactful time. It's just so ... It's really the most impactful time you have, so I think it's really ... I think it's fascinating really.
Dean: Okay. So part of this where you have the opportunity then to perhaps think long-term is to do some of the studies, or to uncover or to be involved in or to establish maybe some of the studies that you wish were available right now.
I'll give you an example, because ... I just launched a new podcast for real estate agents called Listing Agent Lifestyle, and book that I've created around that that lay out the eight elements of the listing agent lifestyle. Five of them the business elements, which would be getting listing and multiplying your listings and getting referrals and converting leads and finding buyers. Then three are the lifestyle elements of daily joy, abundant time and financial peace.
Those are the things that we stand for. Those are what the Listing Agent Lifestyle is about. We've got qualitative and quantitative ways to measure your current situation and your progress. So I just wrapped up in September a four-year case study where we monitored everything that happened with one agent in one marketplace running our Getting Listings Program, and we were able to show that from day one, September of 2013, to September of 2017 that he would have a $50,000 investment over that four-year period and was able to yield $543,000, so a 11 to one ROI.
I've got all these case studies that are happening right now. We've got another one that we'll wrap up in January that will have all of the access to it. So it would be a really valuable thing if you were able to say to people that this ... If you started this case study right now, in January of 2018, that three years from now you were able to show that the kids who follow ... Or the parents who follow this whole protocol for three years have these distinctly advantageous outcomes, you know?
Kelly: Uh-huh (affirmative). Doing this with my own kids you mean?
Dean: Well, your kids are already kind of-
Kelly: Older.
Dean: Yeah. They may be getting out of it, right? But did you document and did you ... How long have you been doing this with your kids, and have you been able to document or are you the example of this kind of thing? Are you the example? Are your kids 20 points higher than the average or whatever? Are they in the higher IQ range than what would be expected? Are they nutritionally more advanced? Is their movement, their reading, their math, their music ... I mean at every level we measure things, like the SATs and things at the end of their schooling career, but what about their graduation into being four?
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Dean: Are there standardized tests? Maybe you can create those, you know?
Kelly: You can ... I talked to the MENSA person. You can actually take your two or three-year-old to a local psychologist and they can do tests, different tests, but they don't test anyone until over 10 years old, but you can take them and there are different tests that they can do for different age groups if you want them to.
Dean: Uh-huh (affirmative). Uh-huh (affirmative). That's what I'm saying, it's kind of a really interesting thing, if you can show that this investment in your kids from zero to three is going to pay off. It's really ... I mean it's something that's got ... If you imagine this 20 years from now, that when you look at the class, the baby class of 2018, that is now the freshman class at Stanford or at Harvard or wherever they're going, that if you've got these long-term studies there it's really valuable.
But the only way to get those is to really set up the parameters and identify where it's going. I'm sharing these things with you because before you get to the tactical, this is how we monetize it. I want to make sure that you have the foundational stuff, like the big picture, this is what this is and this is what the 20-year vision of this is, that that becomes kind of the standard.
Now the good news is by choosing zero to three, you can have your first graduating class three years from now with a definitive kind of outcome. It might be the first only ... The first study that takes this level of comprehensiveness.
If you're creating these parents that want to have their child have all this multifaceted approach to it, right, from not just zoned in on nutrition ... Like some parents, that's all they would focus on. Others might be just focused on music, right? They want to create a music protégé, but they're not realizing that movement and reading and nutrition also are connected to that outcome.
If you create that sort of renaissance baby in a way that they're overall ... That the great thing. You've already got a great name. Ingenious Baby is a good name for that, and that could be a great book.
Kelly: Yeah. Exactly. Right. Once I get all these interviews. Yeah, Go ahead.
Dean: No, I was just going to say that I think that that becomes ... Then once you set up the parameters ... So when we have for the Listing Agent Lifestyle, this has been ... I've been working on these puzzles for 30 years in the real estate world. That's where I started out in 1988, as a real estate agent. So all of my marketing foundation is from zero to three ... All my marketing foundation was created within a lens of real estate, so all the things I do, I still kind of filter through that.
I've had that through line through my whole career of being involved in the real estate world in addition to the marketing world, right? Yeah. So I've got ... When I think about those elements of the Listing Agent Lifestyle, I've got ... When we talk about getting listings I've got the absolute best solution for that. Our Getting Listings Program is really to the point where they just point on a map to where they want to get listings and we can handle everything else. We've got all of the ... We know what postcards to mail. We know what to respond with. We know the newsletters to mail, and to get that ROI when people are ready to sell their house that they'll call you.
We've got an 11 to one return on investment and we know if you've got listings right now that most people are squandering the opportunities that they have to get additional transactions, so we've created a metric called their Listing Multiplier Index, which shows based historically on what they're doing right now how many extra transactions they're getting every time they get a listing.
So we've been able to take people from a Listing Multiplier Index of one to over three by focusing on the protocols and the stuff that we talk about. So when you look at it where if you've got both the qualitative way to identify kind of the philosophically and principally where people are going with this and then you've backed that up with what would be the quantitative metric that would show that they're in better shape at three if they followed this nutritional protocol than otherwise, like are there blood markers? Are there things that would be different because you've done this than not?
If you're saying does it really matter? What difference does it make if they're eating mac and cheese and Cheetos and Mountain Dew? What difference does that make versus somebody eating vegetables and green juice and fruit? How would that show up?
Kelly: It's hard to do a study, a comparison if you're eating junk food.
Dean: Yeah, but it would be interesting. Otherwise it becomes ... There has to be some way to identify that, listen, you are failing or you're winning in this.
Kelly: Maybe it could use past research, you know.
Dean: It could. Absolutely.
Kelly: Yeah. Maybe not just me, but I could actually play into the research, that people have done research on this already.
Dean: Right. That's where it becomes that you're establishing the game and the rules of the game, which is what I'm doing with Listing Agent Lifestyle. I'm establishing the objectives and I have established the winning protocol right now is to follow my getting Listings Programs that I've already created, right? Now what I'm creating in the community is let's experiment and come up with even better outcomes. What are you doing that moves that needle?
If we all agree that the standardized metric for multiplying new listings is a listing multiplier index and we establish the rules of how we establish it, how we calculate it, then you do whatever you do to get that outcome and document it. We take the scientific approach to it, right, the scientific method that you've got to be able to create hypotheses, you set up the experiment, and then you're able to repeat the results.
Kelly: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah. So when you look at that ... If you're getting all of these parents ... It's like crowdsourcing in a way, right? You're bringing in all these experts and parents that are doing their best to see what can actually ... What makes a difference. That's a pretty cool thing, right? That becomes on its own something that's worth being a part of, you know?
Kelly: Yeah, showing other people's experience as well.
Dean: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah. For sure. For sure.
Dean: Because then that can grow beyond you. It's not-
Kelly: It was not designed to be just about me.
Dean: No, that's what I mean. Yeah. You want it to grow, that people are playing this game-
Kelly: That's exactly what I-
Dean: That's what I'm looking at, is that I'm creating a community of people who are playing the game called Listing Agent Lifestyle and advancing their scores in all these eight elements and sharing what they're doing and trying to beat the best kind of thing.
Kelly: Right. Right.
Dean: Yeah. How are you monetizing now? What are you-
Kelly: I'm just ... I literally just started this and I had an idea, a couple of ideas. I just wasn't sure the right way to go. I just was doing ... Was in it anyway and I just started ... I literally just started it a couple months ago.
Dean: Do you have experience with getting corporate sponsorship or things like-
Kelly: Yeah.
Dean: Because it's always-
Kelly: I was in the PR business, which I had done all kinds of like pitching media. We even had a story written about us in the local paper, the website itself, but I definitely know how to approach that. I just wasn't sure that was the right-
Dean: I think it might be because you're ... Especially right now as you are trying to establish the actual outcomes that you can create, you can establish the interest in those outcomes and access to it, but I would take a media type of approach, like the way Martha Stewart looked at ... Her category was living, and everything underneath that umbrella was what she was bringing to people, and mostly it was all based around her TV show, which brought the audience.
It was free for people and kind of like Oprah and some model of that, that it's free for the audience and then the corporations or other people who have a way to monetize within those ... It almost becomes ... Your eight principles or your eight things or your five things or whatever it was become the editorial guidelines for your-
Kelly: That's exactly right. That's what I'm doing.
Dean: Yeah, so all your stuff is around exposing people to the best thinkers, the best programs, the best products, the best stuff. So you're creating an audience of people who are interested in that and then getting paid for access to the audience, you know?
Kelly: Right. The product hasn't been developed yet so no one is going to ... I've been doing PR for years.
Dean: Yeah.
Kelly: You need the audience. It's going to take a couple of months to get through. I just started that like really driving to YouTube and then Facebook.
Dean: I think you may be right on time right now. You may be able to get some ... If you did some ... Were able to do some video content, which this would really kind of lend itself to. Facebook just-
Kelly: I'm already on video. All my videos ... It's on my website. I have 10 videos I've done. I had a 20 minute version for the website, a five to seven minute version for YouTube, and then a one minute version for Facebook for each interview.
Dean: Okay. Well, I think that you may ... It would be good for you to look into Facebook Watch because-
Kelly: Facebook Watch?
Dean: Yeah. They just launched their version of YouTube basically now.
Kelly: Oh, really?
Dean: Yeah. So if you look on your Facebook app or on your homepage in Facebook, right at the bottom of your app there's a little TV monitor, a monitor with an arrow on it, that is ... It'll take you to the interface for Facebook Watch, which is ... They're completely committed to this becoming the platform right now and they're over-indexing on exposing long form shows that are ... So if you have a regular establishment ... That if the Ingenious Baby Show is on once a week-
Kelly: Ever week. It publishes every single week. Yeah. Exactly.
Dean: Yeah. And you set up a page within that environment, they will be very-
Kelly: Have an audience there? Yeah, so I need those ... The audience first, so yeah. I'll have to look into that. I know on YouTube you need to have five to seven minute videos. My TV station here locally that publishes on a local TV station here, about 20 minutes here, so I'd have to figure out-
Dean: Yeah, and I think that that's what they're ... I think that you could publish the full thing on Facebook, because that's what ... They're looking for longer forms ... Longer form content even. Just kind of dig into that. It's really early and this is really an opportunity to kind of plant your flag here and wow with getting all the attention and getting the exposure.
If you're early and there's not much parenting or baby development or childhood development content, while people are searching for it you could be established, that you're buying up really great exposure on an early platform that's going to be big.
Kelly: Right. Right. Yeah.
Dean: Part of the other thing is to really maybe think about what ... If you maybe think the other way, like thinking from the top down, like your audience is anybody with newborns to three-year-olds, that's kind of the zone. There's something to be said for establishing a local audience of this too, right?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: Yeah. When you look at it, that if you think just San Francisco or even just certain parts of San Francisco, where you can really leverage any exposure budget that you have, that you can put your show, but then you can promote and boost your post, so run ads to newborn parents with a certain income within a mile or two mile or five mile radius of somewhere right in San Francisco, or certain zip codes, that you could establish a community that way on a local basis with maybe some meetup groups, and you make it tangible as well.
Then as you're documenting everything that's happening in San Francisco, that is a feeder for all the content that you're creating to distribute to the rest of the world as well, because you can't with a limited budget reach everybody who has newborn kids right now, right? How many kids are born every year? Do you know?
Kelly: Oh gosh, I have no idea.
Dean: In the United States? I wonder. It would be interesting to know, but probably-
Kelly: So many, yeah.
Dean: ... 4,000,000 or something. I don't know. But millions, right?
Kelly: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah, multiple millions of people every year, so at any given time there might be 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 people just in the United States that are that potential audience. Then if you take it to the ones who are the Pampers parents, it's a really big, viable market, but you've got to bite off what you can chew kind of thing.
If you were to think about creating almost like a franchise prototype in a way, what would happen if Ingenious Baby was only a Marin County based business, that if it was only for there? What are the things that people could be exposed to? What local business would be-?
Kelly: It's running on a local television station here, like the Daly Discovery Museum, which is here in Marin, and a couple of schools that are good for early development, so we have a couple local people that we're doing, who come into the studio, and some I do on Skype.
Dean: Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to meet some of the parents who are going to become the ... There might be some great contributors. If you start documenting I call them content-monials, where you start documenting segments of the show based on things that you're doing with these parents that are committed to this and it becomes a really great exposure for not only the local service provider, but also then just in principle the context of it for the national audience, you know?
Kelly: Right, so focusing on that local source before reaching out?
Dean: Yep. When you really look at it, 80% or more of the stuff that is going to be consumed in the pursuit of creating an ingenious baby is going to be consumed on a local basis, right? There are not a lot of kids that are ... By the time people are having kids from zero to three, you're pretty much locally based, right? They're not vagabond, being all over the world, with zero to three-year-olds, you know.
Kelly: This can be taken in any ... No matter where you live.
Dean: Yes. That's exactly it. Yeah. Most of the information you can get ... You can have the information, but if they're going to ... Like if you get down ... There are certain ... When it gets to movement and it gets to some of the things that maybe ... Some protocols or some advanced things, that maybe there are services or maybe there are activities or things that are there, that maybe you think about what would an Ingenious Baby Center look like or a facility look like? What would that be?
I was thinking the polarities of it, thinking what's the thing that's appealing nationally to everybody, and what are the things if this was only a local business that would make sense?
Kelly: Yeah. For sure.
Dean: I mean time flies, you know? We talked for an hour here-
Kelly: My main question was the reasons I need to have to clarify on terms of the outcome and ... So I guess you're saying the route you would take to ... My intent was to keep on doing it for free. At the studio it's all done for free.
Dean: Yeah. I think you keep it free for the audience, but monetize the fact that you are building this audience, because you don't have ... You haven't established a crystal clear one-to-one exchange that you can trade this outcome for this amount of money. While you're establishing those, the information is valuable in that you're building that curious audience, the ones who want access to this information.
Kelly: I'll have to have some kind of audience for the sponsorship?
Dean: Yeah.
Kelly: Okay.
Dean: But it's pretty cool. You've got ... It's such a big ... There's such a big opportunity there, you know? It's just a matter of not getting overwhelmed by it and getting in the dirt with it. That's why really establish kind of the local market as being able to say what would you love to be able to say three years from now that you could point to that these kids are better than the average in these distinct ways that you've got kind of overwhelming consensus on.
Kelly: Right. Yeah. Okay. No, this is good. Okay. Then for local, you'd get like local people to sponsor this versus-
Dean: Yeah, exactly. Like whom ... Then of course all the other things are what are ... There's lots of other things. There's so many things that zero to three-year-olds are going to want to get involved in. There's lots of ways, lots of business that would love to have exposure to parents that are growing ingenious babies.
Kelly: Right.
Dean: I think that's your thing. It's like getting the editorial guidelines and the style guide and what fits, what fits within this, who are the ... It's like obviously if you're going down that path it's not brought to you by Oreos. That's not the right fit for what you're doing. But you've got to have that brand consciousness, that this is what ... Is the tone that we're setting here and these are the types of businesses that would be the right fit for us.
Kelly: Right. Yeah. Okay.
Dean: So try the scorecard. Do the-
Kelly: Yeah, I'll do that.
Dean: Just to see ... So you get a sense of what we're talking about. That'll be a good help for you, inspirational.
Kelly: Okay. Well thank you for your time.
Dean: It's been fun.
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Cool.
Dean: Okay Kelly. Thank you. Where can people go to find this ... What was the website, ingeniusbaby.com?
Kelly: Ingeniusbaby.com.
Dean: Okay. Perfect. I want to keep an eye on this and see how things progress here.
Kelly: Thank you.
Dean: Thanks Kelly. Bye-bye.
Kelly: Bye.
Dean: And there we have it, another great episode. Now we talked a lot about this idea of a scorecard as a way to unify or at least let people know where they stand in relation to the types of things that you're there to help them accomplish. I recommended to Kelly and I'll recommend to you to see what that looks like go to profitactivatorscore.com. You can try our scorecard. You'll see exactly how it works. It'll give you instant clarity on where you stand with how the eight profit activators are either slowing or growing your business.
Of course if you'd like to continue the conversation here you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com. You can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book. If you'd like to be a guest, you can click on the Be a Guest link. That's it for this week and I will talk to you next time. Bye-bye.
Kelly: Hi.
Dean: How are you?
Kelly: Good. How are you?
Dean: I'm good. I'm very excited. I'm looking forward to hearing all about what you're up to.
Kelly: Right.
Dean: We are ... We're recording right now. We got the whole hour to plot some usable schemes for you, so it's a good thing if you could kind of tell me a little bit about the background, about what you're up to, and where you think we might be able to focus on creating breakthrough for us today.
Kelly: Yeah. So I started this website just very recently, ingeniousbaby.com, which is essentially a site of well sourced information and interviews for parents of zero to five, to go up a little bit further, of how to maximize your child's potential, particularly in terms of raising their IQ.
Dean: Kelly, I'm going to stop you for just a second. You sound sort of very muffled or something. I don't know what-
Kelly: Muffled? Okay.
Dean: That sounds a little bit better.
Kelly: Is this better now?
Dean: Yes, it is. Absolutely.
Kelly: I couldn't find my earpiece this morning so I was talking regular.
Dean: This is great. You sound like a whole different person.
Kelly: Oh, good. Okay.
Dean: Perfect. There we go.
Kelly: Okay. Good. Yeah, so I started this website. It's called ingeniousbaby.com and it's a site where I host informational interviews of parents zero to three, where you help maximize the baby's potential, because your child's brain is 90% developed by the time they're four and-
Dean: I read that on your site. That's pretty fascinating.
Kelly: Yeah, and so parents don't realize ... They're like, "Oh, it's just a baby," or "It's just preschool," but these are such important years, and just kind of educating people about what you do now will have an impact when they're in fourth grade or what not. Like if they're not learning or they're not moving correctly they could cause learning disabilities when they're in the fourth grade.
Basically it's just kind of interviewing experts in a number of different areas to help maximize their potential and increase their IQ and that will start when they are born. I've done about 10 to 15 interviews that ... I'm trying to get this following first, which I'm working on. I have a PR background and working on ... Which will take some time to get that installed and so forth. But then once I get the following, my question is how do I ... I have a couple of ideas to monetize it ... The best way do you think would be to monetize?
Dean: Okay. Here's the thing. What would be the best result that you could create for somebody that would be documented? When you look at it, part of the thing is how do we monetize always is a factor of how much result can we create and what is the result that we can create that would be so valuable for people that they would be willing to pay for that, and determines how much they'd be willing to pay for it.
Let's kind of look at it from a standpoint of what's the drive that is going to cause a parent or parents to pay money to give their child this outcome, and what is the best outcome that you could create. If we applied the money part of it and look at the actual outcome that we can create, I mean it's all ... There's a lot of ... In the early childhood development stuff there's ... It's kind of a moving sidewalk in a way that everybody is moving in that direction, everybody wants the best for their child, everybody wants to be the super parent and they feel a lot of pressure to not be the reason their kid gets screwed up kind of thing.
They don't want to get in the way or hold them back, right? There's a lot of that. There's all those both positive and negative emotions kind of at play there, so there's a lot of hyperbole built into that and a lot of very non-specific, non-provable things that can be shown to kind of give their kids every advantage. But if you're coming at it from a quantifiable outcome based position, what is that outcome that you could create for somebody?
If knowing what you know and having exposure to what you have exposure to ... If somebody were to place their infant child in your ... I don't want to say care, but under your guidance for the next three years, what would be the outcome that you could create for that child compared to somebody who was not placed under your guidance?
Kelly: That's an interesting question, because I mean sometimes these things you don't know until years later. I think it's about educating them ... It's a hard one, because it's really about the education information. I'm interviewing PhDs and well-known doctors and so forth, so it's getting access to that information easily, but sometimes you don't know your IQ or what not until a few years later, if they're going to have some kind of problem because they didn't crawl first.
Dean: Has there been any foundational research done to test these hypotheses? Because what you're ... When you're saying those things, you're saying it can add 20 points. Well, how do they know? How does that ... Do you know what I mean?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: What's documenting that? What's backing that up?
Kelly: Well, the people I'm ... Yeah, there's a lot of research based on it, but you could ... Like I say, anyone could Google that research. Actually the people I'm talking to are all PhDs. They do research themselves for example and publish many papers, so they are actually the people who are doing the research. Then I'm interviewing them about the research.
So I don't know ... That's a hard one. I mean that's why I don't know if I get a sponsorship for this only or if there is like ... I've seen these monthly box subscriptions or it could be an informational product or ... You know, based on the outcome of these interviews and their research and packaging that for the person, because they are doing the research. I don't know if that makes sense or if I'm-
Dean: Well, they are, but I mean in a sense, like even in the way we're describing it, right, we're kind of going back to what's the form and the function and the packaging of what we're going to monetize as opposed to what's the result that we're going to create. So I'm trying to initially ... The first part of any marketing, you know, monetizing, is the ... I call it the market dashing. Let's create the market for this. What is the exchange that's going to happen here?
What is the outcome, the product, the service or whatever it is that we're going to use to deliver that outcome, and then what is that worth to a parent, you know? It's all got to start with what's the advantage? If you were able to say that kids who follow this protocol have 20 point higher IQs than kids who don't follow this protocol, that-
Kelly: Yeah. I mean, for example, each person ... That's why I need to have a ... In each person's interview, for example like the baby sign language person, there's a ton of research on baby sign language and how that can increase their IQ by 12 points. If you eat certain foods, there's a lot of research on how that can increase your IQ because, you know ... And if you talk to your baby there's a lot of research ... I talk about all have IQ, but they're all different methods, but if you combine them all together then you have a package. But each person has a different ... They have research for each-
Dean: I get it. That's why I was wondering about the ... I'm getting a clearer picture now, that you're really a curator of these experts who all have different protocols. You're bringing ... You're kind of highlighting all kinds of different things for the parents, not that you've got one thing that you're trying to-
Kelly: There's not one thing I'm trying to bring. There's always going to be different places, but maybe the date and time ... Yeah, so each person will have ... They're all related to IQ, but they're all different activities and things you can do, but they're all in one place.
Dean: Okay. Okay. What attracted you to this? Why you and why this?
Kelly: Well, I'm a mom of two toddlers at the moment and I had read a book which initially started this whole thing about how ... It's called Making Them a Genius and it's this man who many years ago ... When his daughter was born he was like I'm going to make her genius, and he basically took very simple things, walking to the grocery store, everyday activities were always a learning opportunity, and she ended up having an IQ of 200. I thought that was really fascinating because-
Dean: Wow.
Kelly: Yeah. She's like one of the highest IQ people in the world. Even the people I'm interviewing now, like even the people that are in MENSA, they said anyone in the world can have a MENSA level IQ if you do certain things. It's the way that you educate your child or feed them or what not. So I thought that was really fascinating, how as a parent you have so much ... I think they said 50% is environment and 50% is genetics. So you have-
Dean: I was just going to ask you, how does it break down?
Kelly: About 50/50. So your environment is a huge impact on your child's ... Even just like using those 10,000 hour ... The experts said the more you have exposure ... It's not like you're forcing your child to do something, but like just natural, natural learning and giving them the opportunity to learn, and you can significantly raise your child's IQ and potential just by the things the parents are doing, and I think that was really fascinating.
People don't ... They just dismiss this period in particular for ... I'm going to get them into kindergarten, getting them to read, and it's really ... Laying the foundation before that is what's really important, so kind of communicating that. The head of MENSA, who I interviewed last week, saying how anyone can have a MENSA level IQ, and he did it-
Dean: Yeah. That's really fascinating. Okay. I'll buy into that. Then this newborn to three years old, that's your target right now?
Kelly: Yeah. I feel like it could go up to six really, because I feel like the brain by six years old ... Like I say, I'm averaging zero to three, but I could expand it a couple of years, because six is when people say it's-
Dean: It's too late?
Kelly: Not too late, but those are the crucial years. Not that I want to put a fear into the people, but it's an important time.
Dean: Yeah. It's kind of an interesting thing that universally this has always been the thing that parents are inherently kind of motivated to do, right? Provide the best for their kids. This modern thing now of ... As we kind of evolve technologically as a society and stuff, using technology and using things that are going to give kids an advantage, we want to kind of ... We have access to it, so we might as well use it, you know?
It's kind of an interesting thing, that if you're going to be kind of a curator of this, that there almost ... It feels like there has to be an overriding like the boundaries of this, like a curriculum based type of ... Not a curriculum based, but a principle based type of thing, right? That you're looking for things that have some commonalities, that fit in the same family, that are principle based kind of things, you know? Based on what you know so far, what would be sort of categories that would be applicable that you could effect?
Kelly: Yeah, I have those on my website. Nutrition is a big one. Movement is a big one. Reading, math and music, those are the areas I've identified as the ways that you can maximize the potential in those categories. The interviews are kind of broken out in those different categories, based on which thing they want to go to.
Dean: Okay. So you've got five basic things? It would be interesting to see how would you quantify where somebody is on this scale? If you were to say at the end of the three years ... The goal is to get to the end of the three years, and what would be the best outcome for these five things? Nutrition, if we got to three years and we looked at it, what would be the indication that you have failed as a parent shepherding them through those first three years?
No, I'm saying that that's an important part though, right, because it's either that we're talking about things that there's going to be kind of the quantifiable things and there's also qualitative things, right? When you look at it, if we think about nutrition, like if we were creating a scorecard for your child, that at that three year mark ... And I say that, what would be ... Because I'm sure there are situations where somebody has failed at that.
Kelly: Of course. Yeah. I mean it's really hard. I think it's hard to measure. There are so many things that are hard to measure, but in terms of nutrition, like if your kids are just only eating what they serve on nutritional kids' menu, like the mac and cheese and pizza and all that, they want to be eating healthy fats, whole foods, balanced ... The healthy fats really build brain development, so if your kids are eating ... You're being very diligent and you build the child's taste buds around six months, so if you start-
Dean: Yeah. That's up to you, but if the kids are ... Like if they're failing, then the kids will only eat mac and cheese and cookies or whatever, but you're failing. You are failing because you ... That's ... Really they're not the ones that are buying the food or preparing the food. You're putting everything in their hands that go into their mouth, so it's your failure, and you have to get it that they are ... It's a scorecard for them as much as for their child.
If you establish what that would be, what does failing look like, and then what would winning look like, like really transforming, what would be the thing that would be evident at three years if you are at the transforming level in nutrition with your three-year-old.
Kelly: The food affects everything. It affects behavior, sleep, the ability to learn and concentrate. They could be acting out because they're not eating the right foods, or their ability to learn and think and focus, because focus at that level is a really big one, then those are all an impact of food really.
Dean: Yeah. What be the protocol of a winning ... Or transforming with them nutritionally? If mac and cheese and cookies and apple juice are failing, then what would be winning? The opposite of those would be-
Kelly: Grains and fats, coconut oil and lean meats and fats and proteins. Just having a balanced diet is real whole food, like not eating anything processed really. It's particularly important for young children, because that's what helps with the brain development. So if they're eating and wanting these foods, and I could name the different foods, and there are certain foods that maybe are not as ... Like bone marrow is a great one for brain development. Eat that or liver. Those are extreme ones that are great, and all the vegetables, and just nothing really processed if you can. But people are busy and-
Dean: I get it. Yeah. On the movement side, what would be evidence that is failing on the movement side at three years old?
Kelly: A lot of people don't realize ... They think I want my kid to walk or crawl and they kind of force the kid ... Like they put them in the bouncers and the swings and things that helps entertain them, but what we really need to do is help them move naturally. You put them on the floor. They need to learn how to move and to roll and to sit up on their own, but if the parent kind of forces them to ... So they skip crawling so the parent is like, "Oh, walk, Johnny," and they want ... and they're so proud, "Oh, my child is walking early, nine months old," but you don't want to force those things, because if the child does not go through ... That's what helps build the building blocks of the brain.
If a child skips a milestone or they don't crawl or they don't do some of these things, in fourth grade they could have some kind of learning disability that could show up because the brain did not form in the layers that it should have done earlier on. There's a lot of research based on that, that you're not putting them in the bouncers too long, you're not putting them in the car seat. You let them ... Just giving them free movement. The physical movement helps develop the brain essentially. That's what the early years ... That's essentially ... Yeah.
Dean: I love it. Okay. That kind of thing ... Where I'm going with this is to ... I don't know if you've seen my Profit Activator Scorecard that we have?
Kelly: Yes.
Dean: In the scorecard itself at profitactivatorscore.com we an online version where you can go through and pick the statement that matches where you are right now, and the rating system is a one through 12 rating system, but it's divided into four columns. So if you look at it the way we do it with the eight mindsets or the eight profit activators, so selecting a single-target market, in column one is failing on that. Like we just take anybody that shows up, where we're not really ... We cast as wide a net as possible because any business is good business kind of thing, versus transforming ... In column four is that we have a very specific largest check client that we're focused on attracting.
We've got a very specific target market, and then everywhere in between. So we kind of divide it so that each column has three numbers inside of it. Column one would be one, two, three. Column two is four, five, and six. Column three is seven, eight, and nine. Column four is 10, 11, 12, so you can be in column one, but close to column two kind of thing, where you're staying at that column one plus, which would give yourself a three.
But we have people do is rate where they are now, but where they want to be as their aspiration goal, right? They may say, "Okay, I'm at a three now, but I want to be a 10 in this." It helps people identify where they are and where the gap is.
As a diagnostic tool, it's a great conversation starter for us, because what I look for when I'm reading these scorecards is that I see people who are crystal clear on who they want to attract as a target audience, and then I look down at profit activator five, which is delivering a dream come true result, and I look for people who are very high on that, who can get a result for people if they have people to work with, but then they are low on profit activator two, three or four, where they don't know how to generate leads or educate and motivate or convert those leads.
So if I can take somebody who knows ... They know who they want to attract and they get great results for them once they find them, but they can't generate leads or convert them, that's the kind of person where I can help them the best with that.
What this scorecard like this may do is create ... You may find that there is ... If you could find three other areas to get down to like eight total things where ... And some of them could be mindset ones, where the parents are ... What's their mindset that they ... It would be good for you if people believe that they can make a difference in their zero to three-year-old and that they're committed to giving their child every advantage that they can versus somebody who thinks we didn't have any of this stuff, we grew up fine. Kids are kids. They're going to figure it out. It's all just a bunch of fuss to try and overwhelm things.
It's good for you to know that the person who sounds more like the first person that I described is a better fit for what you're trying to do. They're buying into this.
Kelly: Yeah, of course. It's probably an older parent most likely, an older parent or a foreign ... Foreign parents are a market that-
Dean: Yeah. It's really interesting, because I think one of the best ads on television right now is the Luvs campaigns for their diapers. I don't know whether you've seen it, but they basically ... Pampers has the number one brand in the market, right? So a new parent wants to have the best for their child, and so they're going to only settle for Pampers or custom diapers or whatever.
But the Luvs campaign shows the juxtaposition between your first child and your next child, that it's like live and learn and then get Luvs. That's kind of ... They're giving up ... They're saying we're not got to try and convince the parents who are hellbent on having only the very best for their child that Luvs is just as good kind of thing. We admit ... Okay, go for it, live and learn, and then get Luvs. We're the diapers for people who realize that the kids are pooping in these diapers. It's not ... They're pooping in them.
Once you realize that it's good enough, then you realize that that's the right thing. But what we're appealing to are the Pampers parents in a way, right? The ones who are-
Kelly: The older first time parent. Yeah.
Dean: Yes, the first time parents who are high IQ, who have their ... You can picture them, who they are, that they want to give their kids an advantage. They think because they're smart and all this stuff that they can make a difference. That's who the audience is, and knowing that helps a lot, right?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: Yeah. So that helps you identify kind of who the target audience is. But then if you get these other things like the ... Whatever the other mindsets are here, if it's nutrition, movement, reading, math, music, and then there's a couple of other that are mindset things, that could be a really nice format for creating a community around.
Kelly: Yeah. There's communities of people around that are interested in different ... So many topics, all of them, but that was really ... The homeschooling parent might be interesting because they're ... Something like that. Yeah, that's who are the groups that would be interested in something like this.
Dean: Uh-huh (affirmative). When you start to kind of think of that, you have to realize is there an opportunity to create the audience and that the audience is the product that you're monetizing or you're creating the things that are available to the audience and that's what you're monetizing. Are you monetizing the access and endorsement or stamp of approval kind of thing, that everybody kind of buys into this. Is there a face to this brand? Is there somebody who is kind of the leader of it? Is it you or is it-
Kelly: Well, I'm the one doing it because I'm the mom of the two kids and that's them open to having-
Dean: I don't know what the ... Yeah, I don't know ... I mean is it ... It's fine if it's you, but somebody who is like the leader of this movement.
Kelly: I'm doing it because I have the two kids. I'm interested in this information, so I'm like if I'm talking with them anyway I might as well make it available to other people, because there are people that want to talk to anyone, have the questions, because I have the two kids of my own.
Dean: Yeah. Fantastic. When you look at that then, what's your aspiration for this as a business? What is it that ... As your kids now ... Is this something like ... I this going to be less appealing to you now or in five years from now as your kids are then going to be older and you're not in the midst of that zero to three group, like right now you've got toddlers and that's interesting to you, right?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: So that's your thing, but is this something that long-term are you interested in the zero to three age range for 10 years?
Kelly: Yeah. I think it's a really ... Because it's such an impactful time. It's just so ... It's really the most impactful time you have, so I think it's really ... I think it's fascinating really.
Dean: Okay. So part of this where you have the opportunity then to perhaps think long-term is to do some of the studies, or to uncover or to be involved in or to establish maybe some of the studies that you wish were available right now.
I'll give you an example, because ... I just launched a new podcast for real estate agents called Listing Agent Lifestyle, and book that I've created around that that lay out the eight elements of the listing agent lifestyle. Five of them the business elements, which would be getting listing and multiplying your listings and getting referrals and converting leads and finding buyers. Then three are the lifestyle elements of daily joy, abundant time and financial peace.
Those are the things that we stand for. Those are what the Listing Agent Lifestyle is about. We've got qualitative and quantitative ways to measure your current situation and your progress. So I just wrapped up in September a four-year case study where we monitored everything that happened with one agent in one marketplace running our Getting Listings Program, and we were able to show that from day one, September of 2013, to September of 2017 that he would have a $50,000 investment over that four-year period and was able to yield $543,000, so a 11 to one ROI.
I've got all these case studies that are happening right now. We've got another one that we'll wrap up in January that will have all of the access to it. So it would be a really valuable thing if you were able to say to people that this ... If you started this case study right now, in January of 2018, that three years from now you were able to show that the kids who follow ... Or the parents who follow this whole protocol for three years have these distinctly advantageous outcomes, you know?
Kelly: Uh-huh (affirmative). Doing this with my own kids you mean?
Dean: Well, your kids are already kind of-
Kelly: Older.
Dean: Yeah. They may be getting out of it, right? But did you document and did you ... How long have you been doing this with your kids, and have you been able to document or are you the example of this kind of thing? Are you the example? Are your kids 20 points higher than the average or whatever? Are they in the higher IQ range than what would be expected? Are they nutritionally more advanced? Is their movement, their reading, their math, their music ... I mean at every level we measure things, like the SATs and things at the end of their schooling career, but what about their graduation into being four?
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Dean: Are there standardized tests? Maybe you can create those, you know?
Kelly: You can ... I talked to the MENSA person. You can actually take your two or three-year-old to a local psychologist and they can do tests, different tests, but they don't test anyone until over 10 years old, but you can take them and there are different tests that they can do for different age groups if you want them to.
Dean: Uh-huh (affirmative). Uh-huh (affirmative). That's what I'm saying, it's kind of a really interesting thing, if you can show that this investment in your kids from zero to three is going to pay off. It's really ... I mean it's something that's got ... If you imagine this 20 years from now, that when you look at the class, the baby class of 2018, that is now the freshman class at Stanford or at Harvard or wherever they're going, that if you've got these long-term studies there it's really valuable.
But the only way to get those is to really set up the parameters and identify where it's going. I'm sharing these things with you because before you get to the tactical, this is how we monetize it. I want to make sure that you have the foundational stuff, like the big picture, this is what this is and this is what the 20-year vision of this is, that that becomes kind of the standard.
Now the good news is by choosing zero to three, you can have your first graduating class three years from now with a definitive kind of outcome. It might be the first only ... The first study that takes this level of comprehensiveness.
If you're creating these parents that want to have their child have all this multifaceted approach to it, right, from not just zoned in on nutrition ... Like some parents, that's all they would focus on. Others might be just focused on music, right? They want to create a music protégé, but they're not realizing that movement and reading and nutrition also are connected to that outcome.
If you create that sort of renaissance baby in a way that they're overall ... That the great thing. You've already got a great name. Ingenious Baby is a good name for that, and that could be a great book.
Kelly: Yeah. Exactly. Right. Once I get all these interviews. Yeah, Go ahead.
Dean: No, I was just going to say that I think that that becomes ... Then once you set up the parameters ... So when we have for the Listing Agent Lifestyle, this has been ... I've been working on these puzzles for 30 years in the real estate world. That's where I started out in 1988, as a real estate agent. So all of my marketing foundation is from zero to three ... All my marketing foundation was created within a lens of real estate, so all the things I do, I still kind of filter through that.
I've had that through line through my whole career of being involved in the real estate world in addition to the marketing world, right? Yeah. So I've got ... When I think about those elements of the Listing Agent Lifestyle, I've got ... When we talk about getting listings I've got the absolute best solution for that. Our Getting Listings Program is really to the point where they just point on a map to where they want to get listings and we can handle everything else. We've got all of the ... We know what postcards to mail. We know what to respond with. We know the newsletters to mail, and to get that ROI when people are ready to sell their house that they'll call you.
We've got an 11 to one return on investment and we know if you've got listings right now that most people are squandering the opportunities that they have to get additional transactions, so we've created a metric called their Listing Multiplier Index, which shows based historically on what they're doing right now how many extra transactions they're getting every time they get a listing.
So we've been able to take people from a Listing Multiplier Index of one to over three by focusing on the protocols and the stuff that we talk about. So when you look at it where if you've got both the qualitative way to identify kind of the philosophically and principally where people are going with this and then you've backed that up with what would be the quantitative metric that would show that they're in better shape at three if they followed this nutritional protocol than otherwise, like are there blood markers? Are there things that would be different because you've done this than not?
If you're saying does it really matter? What difference does it make if they're eating mac and cheese and Cheetos and Mountain Dew? What difference does that make versus somebody eating vegetables and green juice and fruit? How would that show up?
Kelly: It's hard to do a study, a comparison if you're eating junk food.
Dean: Yeah, but it would be interesting. Otherwise it becomes ... There has to be some way to identify that, listen, you are failing or you're winning in this.
Kelly: Maybe it could use past research, you know.
Dean: It could. Absolutely.
Kelly: Yeah. Maybe not just me, but I could actually play into the research, that people have done research on this already.
Dean: Right. That's where it becomes that you're establishing the game and the rules of the game, which is what I'm doing with Listing Agent Lifestyle. I'm establishing the objectives and I have established the winning protocol right now is to follow my getting Listings Programs that I've already created, right? Now what I'm creating in the community is let's experiment and come up with even better outcomes. What are you doing that moves that needle?
If we all agree that the standardized metric for multiplying new listings is a listing multiplier index and we establish the rules of how we establish it, how we calculate it, then you do whatever you do to get that outcome and document it. We take the scientific approach to it, right, the scientific method that you've got to be able to create hypotheses, you set up the experiment, and then you're able to repeat the results.
Kelly: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah. So when you look at that ... If you're getting all of these parents ... It's like crowdsourcing in a way, right? You're bringing in all these experts and parents that are doing their best to see what can actually ... What makes a difference. That's a pretty cool thing, right? That becomes on its own something that's worth being a part of, you know?
Kelly: Yeah, showing other people's experience as well.
Dean: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah. For sure. For sure.
Dean: Because then that can grow beyond you. It's not-
Kelly: It was not designed to be just about me.
Dean: No, that's what I mean. Yeah. You want it to grow, that people are playing this game-
Kelly: That's exactly what I-
Dean: That's what I'm looking at, is that I'm creating a community of people who are playing the game called Listing Agent Lifestyle and advancing their scores in all these eight elements and sharing what they're doing and trying to beat the best kind of thing.
Kelly: Right. Right.
Dean: Yeah. How are you monetizing now? What are you-
Kelly: I'm just ... I literally just started this and I had an idea, a couple of ideas. I just wasn't sure the right way to go. I just was doing ... Was in it anyway and I just started ... I literally just started it a couple months ago.
Dean: Do you have experience with getting corporate sponsorship or things like-
Kelly: Yeah.
Dean: Because it's always-
Kelly: I was in the PR business, which I had done all kinds of like pitching media. We even had a story written about us in the local paper, the website itself, but I definitely know how to approach that. I just wasn't sure that was the right-
Dean: I think it might be because you're ... Especially right now as you are trying to establish the actual outcomes that you can create, you can establish the interest in those outcomes and access to it, but I would take a media type of approach, like the way Martha Stewart looked at ... Her category was living, and everything underneath that umbrella was what she was bringing to people, and mostly it was all based around her TV show, which brought the audience.
It was free for people and kind of like Oprah and some model of that, that it's free for the audience and then the corporations or other people who have a way to monetize within those ... It almost becomes ... Your eight principles or your eight things or your five things or whatever it was become the editorial guidelines for your-
Kelly: That's exactly right. That's what I'm doing.
Dean: Yeah, so all your stuff is around exposing people to the best thinkers, the best programs, the best products, the best stuff. So you're creating an audience of people who are interested in that and then getting paid for access to the audience, you know?
Kelly: Right. The product hasn't been developed yet so no one is going to ... I've been doing PR for years.
Dean: Yeah.
Kelly: You need the audience. It's going to take a couple of months to get through. I just started that like really driving to YouTube and then Facebook.
Dean: I think you may be right on time right now. You may be able to get some ... If you did some ... Were able to do some video content, which this would really kind of lend itself to. Facebook just-
Kelly: I'm already on video. All my videos ... It's on my website. I have 10 videos I've done. I had a 20 minute version for the website, a five to seven minute version for YouTube, and then a one minute version for Facebook for each interview.
Dean: Okay. Well, I think that you may ... It would be good for you to look into Facebook Watch because-
Kelly: Facebook Watch?
Dean: Yeah. They just launched their version of YouTube basically now.
Kelly: Oh, really?
Dean: Yeah. So if you look on your Facebook app or on your homepage in Facebook, right at the bottom of your app there's a little TV monitor, a monitor with an arrow on it, that is ... It'll take you to the interface for Facebook Watch, which is ... They're completely committed to this becoming the platform right now and they're over-indexing on exposing long form shows that are ... So if you have a regular establishment ... That if the Ingenious Baby Show is on once a week-
Kelly: Ever week. It publishes every single week. Yeah. Exactly.
Dean: Yeah. And you set up a page within that environment, they will be very-
Kelly: Have an audience there? Yeah, so I need those ... The audience first, so yeah. I'll have to look into that. I know on YouTube you need to have five to seven minute videos. My TV station here locally that publishes on a local TV station here, about 20 minutes here, so I'd have to figure out-
Dean: Yeah, and I think that that's what they're ... I think that you could publish the full thing on Facebook, because that's what ... They're looking for longer forms ... Longer form content even. Just kind of dig into that. It's really early and this is really an opportunity to kind of plant your flag here and wow with getting all the attention and getting the exposure.
If you're early and there's not much parenting or baby development or childhood development content, while people are searching for it you could be established, that you're buying up really great exposure on an early platform that's going to be big.
Kelly: Right. Right. Yeah.
Dean: Part of the other thing is to really maybe think about what ... If you maybe think the other way, like thinking from the top down, like your audience is anybody with newborns to three-year-olds, that's kind of the zone. There's something to be said for establishing a local audience of this too, right?
Kelly: Right.
Dean: Yeah. When you look at it, that if you think just San Francisco or even just certain parts of San Francisco, where you can really leverage any exposure budget that you have, that you can put your show, but then you can promote and boost your post, so run ads to newborn parents with a certain income within a mile or two mile or five mile radius of somewhere right in San Francisco, or certain zip codes, that you could establish a community that way on a local basis with maybe some meetup groups, and you make it tangible as well.
Then as you're documenting everything that's happening in San Francisco, that is a feeder for all the content that you're creating to distribute to the rest of the world as well, because you can't with a limited budget reach everybody who has newborn kids right now, right? How many kids are born every year? Do you know?
Kelly: Oh gosh, I have no idea.
Dean: In the United States? I wonder. It would be interesting to know, but probably-
Kelly: So many, yeah.
Dean: ... 4,000,000 or something. I don't know. But millions, right?
Kelly: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah, multiple millions of people every year, so at any given time there might be 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 people just in the United States that are that potential audience. Then if you take it to the ones who are the Pampers parents, it's a really big, viable market, but you've got to bite off what you can chew kind of thing.
If you were to think about creating almost like a franchise prototype in a way, what would happen if Ingenious Baby was only a Marin County based business, that if it was only for there? What are the things that people could be exposed to? What local business would be-?
Kelly: It's running on a local television station here, like the Daly Discovery Museum, which is here in Marin, and a couple of schools that are good for early development, so we have a couple local people that we're doing, who come into the studio, and some I do on Skype.
Dean: Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to meet some of the parents who are going to become the ... There might be some great contributors. If you start documenting I call them content-monials, where you start documenting segments of the show based on things that you're doing with these parents that are committed to this and it becomes a really great exposure for not only the local service provider, but also then just in principle the context of it for the national audience, you know?
Kelly: Right, so focusing on that local source before reaching out?
Dean: Yep. When you really look at it, 80% or more of the stuff that is going to be consumed in the pursuit of creating an ingenious baby is going to be consumed on a local basis, right? There are not a lot of kids that are ... By the time people are having kids from zero to three, you're pretty much locally based, right? They're not vagabond, being all over the world, with zero to three-year-olds, you know.
Kelly: This can be taken in any ... No matter where you live.
Dean: Yes. That's exactly it. Yeah. Most of the information you can get ... You can have the information, but if they're going to ... Like if you get down ... There are certain ... When it gets to movement and it gets to some of the things that maybe ... Some protocols or some advanced things, that maybe there are services or maybe there are activities or things that are there, that maybe you think about what would an Ingenious Baby Center look like or a facility look like? What would that be?
I was thinking the polarities of it, thinking what's the thing that's appealing nationally to everybody, and what are the things if this was only a local business that would make sense?
Kelly: Yeah. For sure.
Dean: I mean time flies, you know? We talked for an hour here-
Kelly: My main question was the reasons I need to have to clarify on terms of the outcome and ... So I guess you're saying the route you would take to ... My intent was to keep on doing it for free. At the studio it's all done for free.
Dean: Yeah. I think you keep it free for the audience, but monetize the fact that you are building this audience, because you don't have ... You haven't established a crystal clear one-to-one exchange that you can trade this outcome for this amount of money. While you're establishing those, the information is valuable in that you're building that curious audience, the ones who want access to this information.
Kelly: I'll have to have some kind of audience for the sponsorship?
Dean: Yeah.
Kelly: Okay.
Dean: But it's pretty cool. You've got ... It's such a big ... There's such a big opportunity there, you know? It's just a matter of not getting overwhelmed by it and getting in the dirt with it. That's why really establish kind of the local market as being able to say what would you love to be able to say three years from now that you could point to that these kids are better than the average in these distinct ways that you've got kind of overwhelming consensus on.
Kelly: Right. Yeah. Okay. No, this is good. Okay. Then for local, you'd get like local people to sponsor this versus-
Dean: Yeah, exactly. Like whom ... Then of course all the other things are what are ... There's lots of other things. There's so many things that zero to three-year-olds are going to want to get involved in. There's lots of ways, lots of business that would love to have exposure to parents that are growing ingenious babies.
Kelly: Right.
Dean: I think that's your thing. It's like getting the editorial guidelines and the style guide and what fits, what fits within this, who are the ... It's like obviously if you're going down that path it's not brought to you by Oreos. That's not the right fit for what you're doing. But you've got to have that brand consciousness, that this is what ... Is the tone that we're setting here and these are the types of businesses that would be the right fit for us.
Kelly: Right. Yeah. Okay.
Dean: So try the scorecard. Do the-
Kelly: Yeah, I'll do that.
Dean: Just to see ... So you get a sense of what we're talking about. That'll be a good help for you, inspirational.
Kelly: Okay. Well thank you for your time.
Dean: It's been fun.
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Cool.
Dean: Okay Kelly. Thank you. Where can people go to find this ... What was the website, ingeniusbaby.com?
Kelly: Ingeniusbaby.com.
Dean: Okay. Perfect. I want to keep an eye on this and see how things progress here.
Kelly: Thank you.
Dean: Thanks Kelly. Bye-bye.
Kelly: Bye.
Dean: And there we have it, another great episode. Now we talked a lot about this idea of a scorecard as a way to unify or at least let people know where they stand in relation to the types of things that you're there to help them accomplish. I recommended to Kelly and I'll recommend to you to see what that looks like go to profitactivatorscore.com. You can try our scorecard. You'll see exactly how it works. It'll give you instant clarity on where you stand with how the eight profit activators are either slowing or growing your business.
Of course if you'd like to continue the conversation here you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com. You can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book. If you'd like to be a guest, you can click on the Be a Guest link. That's it for this week and I will talk to you next time. Bye-bye.