Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we're talking with Gorana Angert from here in Florida.
I've known Gorana for a few years now. She's been to a Breakthrough Blueprint event. She's in our Email Mastery program, so I had some context with her, and when she asked to be on the podcast to talk about an exciting new venture she's doing, I was game.
I think this is going to be a very important conversation because as we're moving into the 2020s now, it's a chance to reevaluate where we are.
I always love to think about it like this; we're coming into our first proper decade of the new millennium. As we're moving into the 20s, so much has changed. We literally have the ability to create our own television network, our own radio network, our own printing press.
We've had the chance to do all of these things for some time, but I think we're coming to a time now where we can really take it that seriously. Just like a 'real' television network or a 'real' radio network.
We had a really great discussion about the context of creating content in the new world, in a way that attracts the right audience and has the biggest impact in the world, the world you want to have an impact in.
So big thoughts, big moves in this episode, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 163
Dean: Gorana.
Gorana: Hi, Dean, how are you?
Dean: I am so... So good to talk to you again.
Gorana: I know. Me too. I'm really excited to be here.
Dean: Where are you at?
Gorana: I'm actually in Orlando.
Dean: You are, look at you?
Gorana: I am. I know.
Dean: Well, I'm in Winter Haven.
Gorana: I know, we're not that far.
Dean: That's funny. Do you live here now, or are you just visiting here now?
Gorana: I actually moved from Philadelphia after we had three storms, back to back, and my in-laws were sending me pictures of pools and cocktails and stuff while we were shoveling three feet of snow. We're like, "Wait, we can move. Why don't we just move down there?" So last year we moved down here.
Dean: Awesome.
Gorana: Yeah.
Dean: Well I can't wait to hear what you are up to. I know lot of times people that I talk to are, the first time I'm having any interaction with them, but of course you've been to a Breakthrough Blueprint, and you're in our Email Mastery Program, so you're an experienced Breakthrough blueprinter, so I'd love to hear what you're working on now, and what we can focus on today.
Gorana: Yeah, I'm actually really excited to be on More Cheese, Less Whiskers because that's the lens that I put everything through, and I don't know if this is a verb, more cheese, less whiskering.
Dean: Ah, I love it. That's true. Yes.
Gorana: I mean I'm using it on my three year old, and I think I shared that with you when he doesn't want to take a bath, I'm like, "James take a bath," and he's like, "No." So I'm like, all right, how about I take the toys and say, "You want to splash in the tub?" And he's like, "Oh okay, yes." And I'm like, thank you Dean. That was a great parenting advice.
Dean: I tell that story a lot because it's the perfect example of naming something, you're positioning it as something that they really want to do. What three year old wants to take a bath? That sounds like something not to do, right? But splashing in the tub, that sounds like fun. Yes, I want to splash in the tub. And added to that the, you're breaking it down that just when you understand what is the mechanical outcome that you want? And what you want is, you want a three year old in the tub, in the water. That's the outcome that you're looking for.
So how you frame it? It doesn't really matter how you frame it, if the outcome is that you get it. That's why I use that to describe to people if you ultimately want somebody's name and email address, if that's the outcome that you want, it just makes sense to frame it in something that is 100% all cheese. Focus on what they really want, and now you've got their name and their email address, and now you can engage in a dialog to do the convincing, separate the compelling from the convincing. So very exciting.
So what are you up to now? I can't wait to hear all about it.
Gorana: I have a new project that I'm just so happy that we'll have some of your skills for. So let me tell you just a 30 second background on it and how I landed on this project, because it puts some context around it.
So my company's called CXO Crew International, and it's a strategic innovation and experience design studio. I'm consulting with businesses to design their client experience. So taking the story unit and designing all the touch points and interactions that they would have with their clients, in a very detailed way.
So I started thinking about that, I was like, "Okay, I should probably do something," because I speak about it and all that. But then I'm like, "I need to be more visible." So I started a show live on Facebook, because my background is in theater. And I don't like being in front of the camera. In fact, I was listening to Colbert the other night, and he was talking about his old show. He said, "You stick a camera in somebody's face, their IQ drops by 40 points."
Right, so, I don't like being on camera, but I like the live interaction. So I started to interview people. The show is called Street Cred Show live on Facebook. We just finished the first season. And the concept is for people to come on the show, share their street cred accomplishments and everything else and then talk about how that past experience is helping them get new clients. And then we get to mastermind sometimes on some things that I can help them with.
So, that show I started doing, and then I would say, after maybe, three quarters of the season completed, I felt claustrophobic being behind my desk, constrained inside of the frame. And actually when I bring my guest, half of the frame, you can't even move. And that's true for any television show. Or if you're shooting a movie, you still have to keep yourself in the frame. But I wanted to move, I wanted to break the box, get out of the box.
And I love doing in the show. I love talking to people. I love producing the show, and I like everything about it. So I'm like, "Okay, I got to take this on the road." So, I started looking into different ways to produce that show, and landed on OTT platforms. Which is your Roku, your Apple TV, Amazon Fire co-streaming television, so I'm like why not create a spot for a television show?
Dean: For people who don't know what OTT, Over The Top, right on top of already existing cable and internet. So you're giving... All the smart TVs now, I say this too... I was having this conversation with Nick Manton, the other day. Nick has an app, or a thing on smart TV that, it's getting now where the production capabilities and the things are so easy now. Anybody with a smart TV can figure out how to access your OTT programming. And it's just like watching regular TV. Everybody knows how to access YouTube and others. Now, so, you essentially do have, in essence, you can have a network. You can have your own TV network.
Gorana: Exactly, Yeah. And I think Roku is licensing their operating system to a smart TV. So they're built in. I started looking into that, and like, "Let's produce a proper TV show." And then in my research, I'm like, "I should really be doing that, because it really combines all my interests."
I'm one of those multi-passionate people that from the outside, everybody's like, "How many things do you have going on?" But, the truth is, for people like me, I am ambidextrous, left hand, right hand equally fine. I'm strategic, and tactical, I'm creative and analytical. And so if I do one activity, and I leave the rest behind, it doesn't feel right. So I have to find a way to combine everything. And then having a channel on Roku, or having the platform like that, actually combines everything for me.
So doing my consulting in a docuseries that I'm planning to do, so I still do the work that I developed over the course of last 10 years. It's not going to be a lost, but it's in the context of a TV show, a documentary, that takes people through.
Dean: Perfect.
Gorana: Exactly. Yeah, testimonials essentially.
Dean: But most people don't also understand the value of packaged content. What you have, that is an asset, those shows that you create. When you look at it, I just read, that the digital rights for Seinfeld, are on Hulu right now, but they're expiring in 2021, and are expected to go back on the market, and fetch another 400 to $500 million, for the digital streaming rights, which brings the total to over $4 billion that show has created, that content catalog of 180 episodes of Seinfeld. So documenting, and packaging things, you're talking about are really an amazing thing. I like where you are going.
Gorana: Yeah, I think it's really a great opportunity to showcase your work. But the hero of the story, is the client. It's really the story of the client's transformation, but you're there to help them along, right? Many people follow your story brand, which is more into how do you get clients in? This is more how do you deliver the service?
How do you get to that dream come true experience for them? And then document it for everybody else to see. Which then in my mind, people watching who can identify with those cast members, if you will, can seek you out as an expert.
And that would be starting up a whole platform around that.
Dean: Yes. I really like that. I just saw an interview with... I can't remember the guy's name now, the guy who started the Discovery Channel. And Discovery now is a huge global conglomerate that owns the Discovery Channel, HGTV, Science Channel, the Nature Channel, Planet Earth, all of these things driven by one thing, which was curiosity.
That's the overriding thing. This guy was exploring curiosity, and providing the platform, and channels for people to explore their curiosity. So if they're curious about history, we got a whole network for that, with nothing but content around history, niche content, and the discovery over-riding thing, it's a brilliant thing.
Martha Stewart's, Omnimedia, her whole empire is based on this broad category of living. And underneath living, there are all of these different channels of the way that people experience that through decorating, through entertaining, through cooking through homemaking, through weddings, all of that stuff is all encompassed under the umbrella of living. So you're totally on the right track here having a context, that you can drive, is great. Organizationally, our overriding arch is that we help entrepreneurs make more money. So that opens up all these possible ways that we can do it from free podcasts, to online courses, to membership programs, to tools, to events to consulting, all of it.
Gorana: Now, that's exactly what I was thinking, actually. So the channel is the DSTV Business. And DS stands for directing success. It's all about directing success in business. Which is the same thing, which we were just talking about, with these so many subcategories, to fall into that, and that works for me. Because I can be the crazy person doing one project for four months, and then moving on to something else that is of interest, the next six months. And people can understand, okay, you're producing, this for this channel. It makes sense.
Dean: What's the first word? What's the D stand for? That you're using?
Gorana: Directing. Directing. And it's spun on film directing, being a film director and being orchestrated, and intentional, and deliberate, and you're not leaving things to chance, right? You know where the future is because you're going to create.
Dean: You're directing it. Right.
Gorana: Exactly. Exactly. So I wanted to start with a business, and have original programming for the global business community, for business leaders, who want to do business better. So, all the content like docuseries, a reality docuseries, the documentaries, the talk shows, or expert type shows, or makeover shows, like HGTV... Say that 10 times fast, right? Like HGTV would do the makeover, so similar to that or the Profit, because they're taking companies that are failing.
Dean: I look at that as the same approach for More Cheese, Less Whiskers, but that's essentially what that is, is the podcast version of the Profit in a way. One business owner each week and we're working on their business. So, what I've been thinking about, what maybe what would be a cool thing, is to take a business owner through a longer journey, not just everything is self-contained on this one hour.
It's a consultation, but it would be cool to watch it unfold. I did for our real estate side, I did a series called Six Months to Six Figures. I worked with one realtor to document going through the process of implementing all of our programs.
Gorana: Yeah, because I think this kind of format lends itself to really activating the social proof.
Dean: Yeah.
Gorana: When people are watching it, they can see, oh, you can help that kind of person. Well, I'm that kind of person. And this is how you do it. And it's not as scary as everybody thinks. And these are the results. And these are the results that I want. And so it just lends itself to see the whole life cycle, in this docuseries. To activate social proof, and actually get more clients from it.
Dean: Yes, I love it. So where are we at right now? And where do you need to go?
Gorana: So, the evil scheme that we need to hatch is how do we get subscribers and eyeballs to this new channel we're starting from scratch? Which is always the question, right? Because, I think this is actually a multi-sided platform that requires to have the audience, so that you can attract the guest experts, guest members, advertisers, and sponsors. There's a lot of different ways to monetize it. But I think, in my thinking, and correct me If I'm wrong here, I think you've got to bring the audience first. You have to have that market there, to charge people to advertise on that channel, right?
Dean: Yeah, of course. That's the thing, you have to be able to gather the audience to be able to sell your influence to that audience, or access to that audience. So, what do you see as the obstacles there? Where are you at right now in terms of, is it on smart TVs right now? Or how would somebody access it?
Gorana: It's going to soft launch on 11-11, on November 11th. The app is built, but I need to upload the content, and then it will be available on Roku devices and smart TVs. Just on Roku and then the second platform would probably be mobile platforms, iOS and Android, and then go to Amazon Fire and Apple TV. That would be rolled out over the course of six months. You have to build all those apps. So, I'm starting with three shows. One is How To, one is docuseries, and one is the Street Cred Show that I already have.
And what I was thinking to do, is I can promote the show's themselves and say, "They're on this network," or promote the network itself, and say "These are their shows on it." Maybe doing both. I was thinking about speaking about brand entertainment as the topic, and how you can leverage it. Things like that. Maybe some digital campaigns on Facebook, and things like that, just to get people to know, hey, this is there, it's available.
Dean: Okay, so part of the thing I guess, when I look at this is, my thought is, there's going to be an audience of people who you've got your content that would be appealing to. So that's not that hard to find, because they're entrepreneurs, as you are. It feels like that's who you're trying to attract, right? So then the content that you're creating will be on the channel, and it's the logistic jump from that to actually being able to access the content, is going to be the biggest hurdle to overcome, right? Not their desire for it, or not getting their awareness of it, that ultimately, this might be the perfect kind of example of separating the compelling, from the convincing, in that it may be more important to gather the audience on to a list. First off, do you have a big list of entrepreneurs right now?
Gorana: Not a terribly big list, no. Most of my work is through referrals only. And that's thanks to Joe Stump, by the way. But yes, most of my work is by referral only. I don't have a big list to fall back on, to leverage.
Dean: Yes. So what we need to be able to do ultimately, it's going to be more important to build that list. And I think that this least friction that you could have, would be to just focus on that. And then show people how to get access to the channel, right where there's more.
Walk me through one of the... What do you think is going to be the most compelling thing that you're going to have on 11-11 available for them to access?
Gorana: I think it would be the How To series, about how to turn your clients into your best and unpaid sales people.
Dean: Okay.
Gorana: It's about getting referrals and testimonials and things like that.
Dean: How to turn your clients into your best sales people. Is that what you said?
Gorana: Yeah. How to turn your clients into your best sales people? Or, how do you get your clients to sell for you, so you don't have to.
Dean: Yeah, perfect. Now, that's what this show is going to be about.
Gorana: Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be a docuseries where I'll show them how to do it through the how-to docuseries format, with some examples, and things like that, so they can watch it and be info-tained. You know?
Dean: Yeah, I love it. Are you using local businesses for that? Or who are you documenting?
Gorana: I'm going to use my clients.
Dean: Okay. And so are they local clients or?
Gorana: Not all of them. Actually most of my clients are on the West Coast. I used to still live in California. So, for some reason, that's just where most of my friends are. Yeah, so they're all over actually.
Dean: Okay. But you're going to be on site, you're going to document what's happening there? Or what's actually an episode going to look like?
Gorana: It's going to be the initial, not really an online training, but it's going to be an episode about social media, how to activate social proof, how to get people to give you good stories, how to curate those stories, how to overcome objections inside of those curated stories so that you can increase your conversion. Because if you present four stories, and each story has a testimonial client success story, and each story has your ideal clients showing and they also are telling people what objection they had and they overcame, and it was the best decision they ever made, you can have this domino effect of handling objections before a person even talks to you. So, I'm going to be talking about that.
Dean: I call those content-imonials.
Gorana: Yeah.
Dean: That's what you're creating, right? You're creating content that happens to wrap a testimonial around it too.
Gorana: Exactly. And I make a distinction, which I'm going to cover as well, is what's the testimonial versus the client success story. I make a distinction to where a testimonial is about you, as a service provider, like Dean is the best. And then the client success stories about them, and what they have to go through, and what their experience was and what objections they had to overcome. And what was that transformation for them? And, they're just talking about your expertise to get them there.
Dean: Exactly, which is the better way of saying... It's demonstrating that, that good thing came through their work with you. So it's better than them even saying it overtly. It's implied, and then in built into the story, that's great.
Gorana: Yeah, it's like a subtext, working between the lines, bring the emotion out.
Dean: That's exactly right.
Gorana: That's why you have to bring that emotion out.
Dean: Yeah, which is so much better. Okay.
Gorana: And then I'll have examples using my clients. So, some people may be interested-
Dean: What would be very interesting about this is you want to try and get people on board, right? So they can go and watch this? You want to gather your audience for this. And I think that the approach that I would take, is to reduce the friction between getting in conversation with the right people, gathering your audience here, right?
So for profit activator one, selecting your target audience, which are the right kinds of entrepreneurs, and profit activator two being, just compel them to raise their hand.
I think that the thing that is the easiest to consume would be to offer a book like that, a book about that, so that you're just turning invisible prospects into visible prospects. You're involved with everybody who wants a book called, How to Turn Your Clients Into Your Best Sales People. That's the person who would be interested in watching your TV show of that.
Gorana: Now, I already have a checklist for that.
Dean: Yeah.
Gorana: I already have that created, so maybe I can leverage that.
Dean: You could, maybe. So you just experiment. The only thing that I would do on the front end is just focus on not telling them about the TV show, per se, because that's going to add friction into so, what do I have to do now? Now I have to go and download an app. It's not that easy for me to consume its multi-steps.
So it would be in your best interest to not even talk about that right now. But just gather that audience of those people. And then as soon as they download the book, now we've got all the opportunity to invite them to come and do it. Because maybe there's some baby steps of it, that you can have a video that shows them how to actually set this up, or you show them trailers of the show, which make it easy for them to access.
Gorana: Okay. -. Yeah. And I think you're absolutely right with the download of the app, because that is a multi-step. And you either need to negotiate your password using the up down arrows. The website is so annoying. So, yeah, I think that's a great idea. And I can leverage the book later, too.
Dean: Yeah. Because here's the thing, the content that you're creating, the first thing it's this bridge, the baseline thing of all of it, is the audience. So you're going to build the audience, and then you're going to direct them over to the content. Which, some of them, it's going to be progressively less people to make the journey further up the mountain kind of thing.
If you're just saying, "Come on up to the summit here," that they have to be interested in the content, and understand how to go get this app, and how to download it onto their TV, and how to set up these things. And they got to do all this climbing to get to the top, there's going to be a lot of resistance to that, a lot of attrition on that.
Gorana: Yeah.
Dean: So start out with 1000 people at the bottom of the mountain and you might end up with 20 or 30 or 50, at the top of the mountain. So, rather than standing up on the mountain, say, "Hey guys come on up here. It's easy, just follow that path there," and hope that they make it, is to get down on the bottom and just get them to the observation tower, which is down-loading a book titled the same thing, which means that they're interested in this, and "If you like the view from here, you should see what we've got at the top." Right?
Gorana: Exactly. I love it. And I think this is easy to do too, because I have the content. I've done a workshop, one day workshop, with hours of contents already, that was recorded. So having maybe that. It's transcribed already actually. So just pull that together and curate certain things, and illustrate things and put some examples and it's really not that complicated. Yeah. I think that's a good idea.
Dean: That way the book can be, watch the TV show, get on this. Now it's easy. The people who want to move forward, can move forward, but you've got a long period of time now to continue to send value. You look at the shows as the flagship content, but if you... The way I do this podcast as the main event here. From this, its transcribed, and we pull out, all of the emails that I send you, three emails a week, are all derived from something that I've said on the podcast.
Gorana: Yeah.
Dean: So if you look at you gathered that audience, and you've got now all this content that you're creating, there's easy ways to pull out some instructive articles, that you're sending the email to all of those subscribers. And each time, you're able to direct them to come to the channel.
Gorana: I had the super signature. You taught me that, the super signature. So, maybe DSTV Business can be a super signature.
Dean: Yes. It's almost like, "Next week DSTV is..." It's almost like every week they get the digest. "Here's what's coming up. Here's what's new this week, click here to watch."
Gorana: Yeah, I created a landing page, as a keep me updated page or coming soon type page. I started building the list just for people who are interested in the channel itself to say it's coming up in November or whatever. Yeah. So yeah, I like that. That's a really nice touch point for that, but I also like creating a book or something for each of the shows.
Dean: Yeah.
Gorana: Like a How To show, or there's the docuseries that I have in mind, its taking the directing success method, which is my IP that I use in my consulting, and then do a four month following six brands, on how to improve and have a makeover of their service delivery they're doing, that they create the result. There's a lot of parts of that. That can be a book, that can be also a book as well.
Dean: Yes. I agree.
Gorana: I like that idea. So you can actually syndicate into the into gathering the audience for each of the shows, and then aggregating them into the DSTV Business channel.
Dean: That's right.
Gorana: Okay.
Dean: Yeah, it separates it right? So, now all you're doing is you are perpetually gathering new people. And that way the whole media thing is that you've got the multi-media approach. You've got all of these subscribers to your newsletter, or to your inbox. That sort of stuff is really... have you seen things like the Skimm? Did you know about the Skimm?
Gorana: Yes.
Dean: So, millions of subscribers. Email newsletters are a digest. I subscribe to the New York Times Daily Digest, too. So they curate things for me, and I think that's going to be where a very valuable relationship is with people. Because, there's so much content being created. I did the math, there's last count was 300 hours per minute of video posted on YouTube.
Gorana: Oh, yeah.
Dean: So, I did the math on that later on that too. In one 24 hour period, it would take you 20,000 years of eight hour work days to watch the content for... Sorry, 2000 years, I think. Yeah, of eight hour work days to consume just the video content that's uploaded in one day.
Gorana: It's amazing. We have to cut through that clutter, right?
Dean: Yeah, what's going to be more and more important is trusted curators of that, that we know... That's where it's coming back full circle and a lot of ways that the networks, like the networks on TV where essentially, they had a monopoly on curation. That if you were going to be on TV, you had to go through one of the networks, right?
Gorana: Yes. -.
Dean: Now there's so much, anybody can put content up there, but if you create a trusted or contextual platform, for what you can expect on that like Discovery Channel, that model, its great. And of course now you get to do it for free. It was, essentially it was a lot more money to start the Discovery Channel than it is to start DSTV.
Gorana: Oh, absolutely. Now you can build your app, you don't even have to pay somebody to do it. I went with outsource.
Dean: Right.
Gorana: Because I'm educated on the self-milking cow.
Dean: Right, exactly.
Gorana: I try not to do the things you don't have to.
Dean: Even though, you know how.
Gorana: Yeah, I probably could have done it. But I decided not to, and just have somebody else build it. So they did, and they did a good job actually. I'm actually very happy with them.
Dean: What does it cost to start a channel?
Gorana: It really depends who you go with. There is a new company called maz.com M-A-Z.com I believe. Don't quote me on the URL, but it's Maz. A lot of big companies are using them as content aggregators. And I believe there were charging maybe 15 to $2000 when I checked. It was either $1500 a month or $2,000 a month, and they build all of your apps, and then you get to have your Apple TV, and the Roku, and Amazon Fire, and your mobile app, all the updates. They do it up front as a no setup fee, but they just build it. And then you pay a monthly fee to basically maintain that, as a hosting for those hours.
Dean: Right. And that's it. And there's your thing. You are essentially in the global broadcast business. It's ridiculous, isn't it?
Gorana: It's that easy.
Dean: It's ridiculous when you think about it.
Gorana: Yeah. But I think is it really comes down to what you were saying about curation of really good content, that people would actually want to watch, and the quality of the content.
Yeah, because when I was researching this, I was looking at CNBC and what they're doing, and who would I want to compete against? So when I looked at the Roku platform, there are not that many business channels, or networks by entrepreneurs, that are that good in my opinion. But there's a lot of room for business people to come in, and really have that slice of the growth casting media, right?
Dean: Yeah.
Gorana: So I looked at some of them. I'm like, that's not the content, that's not my competitor. I want to be able to go to CNBC and say, "Would you buy my show?" That's how I look at it, you know?
Dean: Yes. Yes. Yeah, I love it.
Gorana: Yeah, but I think the other thing I was looking into is what business do I really want to be in? Do I want to be a consultant expert in the expert industry, which is what I've been doing. Do I want to be in video production business, to send crews all over the place? Crisscrossing the country and making this videos, or films, or whatever? Or do I want to be a platform, to connect these people?
Dean: I think you maybe want to be a mogul.
Gorana: Exactly. Because you look at Facebook, you look at Amazon, it doesn't really matter what happens. They're always making money, right?
Dean: Yeah.
Gorana: So, I noticed, not too long ago, that the splash screen of Facebook, when you first go on Facebook, and you don't log in, they changed how they titled, create your free account. There's no word free there, right?
So, okay. So now you have all these people on his platform, the organic reach is down, so I'm going to charge you to advertise on this platform, if you want people to see your stuff, and then I'm going to charge people to have a premium account, so that they don't see your stuff.
Dean: Right.
Gorana: So it's like, okay, where do you want to play here? What makes the most sense? And I think being a producer really speaks to me because I can pull all my interests, and talents, and what not into one place. And people would get it. Like, they wouldn't say, "Oh, you're a consultant, you're a producer, you're a film director. Well, what are you?" You know?
Dean: Yeah. Right. And I think that we're in a situation where the most important thing, and probably the most valuable thing is, what's the end result that you can do with the attention? What is the thing? And you really start to look at it as much as you can to keep it free for the audience, in a way. The biggest media successes or whatever, if you look at it, all those things are basically... You look at Martha Stewart, you look at the Discovery Channel, you look at those things, it's free to consume kind of thing.
Gorana: Right.
Dean: But the ability to direct the attention is really where that goes.
Gorana: Yeah, it's like the Aikido method. Right? I was just like it's all about re-directing the energy, right?
Dean: One of my favorite examples of what's happening right now, is there's a show, I don't know whether it's on HGTV, or on one of those channels called Cash Pad. You seen this one?
Gorana: Cash Pad. What network is it on?
Dean: I don't remember what network. It's like an HGTV network show-
Gorana: It sounds familiar.
Dean: But I'll explain to you what they do. It's the couple from the bachelorette, a couple of years ago. I forget that Jordan and Joanna are their names. I don't know their last names, but essentially, they're in the Dallas area. And what they do is they find people, homeowners, property owners who have a space, an out-building, or a substantial space that could be converted into a vacation rental, or Airbnb type of space. And they, partner with them.
So the perfect example, the first episode I saw, was this guy had a 2000 square foot out-building on his property, that was from the 40s, and it was really unique, kind of lofty, kind of warehouse kind of space. And what they did is, they come to the homeowners and they say, "Okay, let's partner up. We'll bring the money to do this renovation, we'll renovate this unused space that you have into an amazing, vacation rental or temporary rental. And we'll put up all the money to do that. And we'll pay you, $700 a month for guaranteed for four years. And we'll get all the money above that $700 a month for that four years, as a return for our investment. And then at the end of four years, you get the space back and now it's yours."
And that model is a pretty interesting... Because these homeowners, they got the space, but they don't have the money to turn it into something, or the expertise to capitalize on it, or manage it, or do all the things this other couple can do to make it happen, let's collaborate. So all of that, it's a TV show that's there's, but the whole thing is also sponsored by Airbnb.
So when you look at it now, on the surface, it's like any one of these makeover things, but it's also planting the seed for people everywhere to think we could convert our space into an Airbnb thing, and start making some money from that. So overall, Airbnb wins, in terms of they own the show, but they also have the opportunity to direct people on a meta level. It's really increasing the number of people who get excited about putting a space on Airbnb.
Gorana: Exactly. Yeah. There's so many different ways that you can monetize the platform, right? Something like that, you can get sponsors, you can get experts, who will come and pay you to be on the show.
I'm not a fan of pay to play, it just irks me. I think it should be earned, it should be curated. I've used that word a lot today.
Dean: No, it's a good word though. I think that curation is going to be one of the most important words of the 20s. As we're moving into the 2020s here, that I think curation is going to be where it ultimately has to go. We're starting to see the... We're helpless against our ability to find, or even organize the stuff that we want to watch, and if somebody that is a trusted source, for finding all of this stuff, is able to curate the stuff, the editorial of that is great.
That's why this idea of a network is such a cool thing. That I know if I like science, that I can just go to the Science Channel, and they've curated all these great shows about science. Or the History Channel, or the Nature Channel, or Outdoor Channel, all of these things. I know what I'm getting, you know?
Gorana: Yeah. Now let me ask you this, I had an idea for this show where I would invite experts. I called it Get It Done. And the Get It Done show is all about inviting experts to come on the show, share their expertise, and solve the most pressing issues that are happening in the business world. That show is more like a general business show. You may have somebody who is really great branding experts, common tips or maybe even a make-over to another business on the show or something like that.
And then another week, you may have somebody who talks about leadership, and then talk about digital marketing. It's all these different areas - Exactly, yeah. Profit activators.
Dean: Yeah. Maybe someone who lives right down the street from your studio.
Gorana: Actually, I have an idea for a show. And I would love, love, love for you to be a guest on it. And I'm planning it for spring. And it's similar to Seinfeld, Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. And that's-
Dean: I love it. Yeah. Yeah.
Gorana: That would be fantastic. And golf would be involved. I had this in mind already. So I'll send you the details. But yeah, so Get it Done is more general. So do you think it's better to have a show that is more general that covers different topics? Or stick with, okay, this is a show about marketing, or this is a show about branding. And then just every week, you're just showing the same stuff, with different people?
Dean: Well listen, there's no shortage of stuff right now. So nobody's going to watch what they don't have any interest in. So, you're either going to be specifically speaking to the right people, or they're just going to not tune in on that one. We've got so much stuff. There's no way to keep up with everything we want to watch. So, the more specific and specialized it can be, then you've got a winner there, I think.
And, I think the magic that we've proven is, a 10 to 12 episode binge worthy type of thing, that's the winning formula. Seems like the shows that are getting the most attention, right now, you think about Billions, when you think about Ozark or, when they release the season, especially when they release a whole series that you can watch the whole thing. In terms of-
Gorana: So, you don't drip yeah.
Dean: Episodic. Yeah, exactly where all the episodes are released. I think there's something to that, where you can really substantially get into something.
I always observe my own behavior, because I'm hyper vigilant about marketing. And what I've noticed is that, even if you're dripping content out, once a week, or you're creating a video show, I realized that as you keep doing those, you can compress the amount of time that it takes for somebody to know you, like you, trust you, by the volume of content that they consume, versus the amount of time that it takes for those to do that.
And the example, there's a guy, here in Lakeland, which is right next door, and he's got a really great YouTube channel called A Fine Press, is the name of his company, and the name of his YouTube channel. And Matthew's his name and he I stumbled on it, and it turns out he was right there in Lakeland, next door but he really does amazing letterpress stationery, and wedding invitations, and things like that. He's an artist, a really world-class creative guy, engaging. And he's got a great video blog, that he does.
And I found that when I found the channel, I went all the way back and I started watching all of these videos over the weekend, and I really got to know that, and see what he's really all about. And I, texted him on Monday morning and said, "Hey, I just, I live right next door in Winter Haven, I just discovered you. I want to stop by and talk about some projects." So, it stimulated my mind on all of these things that could be done. So, I popped by, but I felt like I already knew him, kind of thing.
But what was really interesting about it, is when I went there to see him, he didn't know who I was. Which it's a different thing, right? I got it now that I feel like I knew who he was because I'd had all this experience of watching his videos, but here, I'm just coming to him.
And it was, it was kind of funny, because he was expecting me, like waiting for me to pitch something to him, right? He thought I was there to kind of sell him something, and he didn't know who I was, or didn't know what the context of it was. And you realize it's just a matter of no matter how nice you are, how great you are, it's not until somebody has a sense of who you actually are, that something shifts, you know? Yeah.
Gorana: And that's the power of video. People can see you, they can hear you, they can see your mannerisms, they can see your body language, it's like you're right there. It's a good substitute for being in person.
Dean: I agree.
Gorana: That's awesome.
Dean: I think you're onto something there. I would look at it that there's no... You can focus on maybe being the king or queen of all media. That it's not even just the TV, that there could be a podcast version as well, because there's a lot more available attention for audio than for video.
Gorana: Yeah. Yeah. I actually took my Secret Show and put it up on podcast. And I went to podcast movement, actually was it August or something, but anyways I realized... Because I think in visual, I think in video. I'm not thinking audio at all. And so I wanted to strip the audio out of that video, put it up on the podcast platform, and syndicate it that way. But what I realized, is doing a live video, is probably not the best experience to have that intimate headphone experience like you would if you're listening to a podcast.
That audio should be very clear, and very crisp. And when you have a live show, you're recording live, which doesn't give you as much control as I would like to have over production because somebody may come in, you have sirens. But then at the same time, it's forgiving because it's live, but if you try to repurpose that for audio platforms that are really sensitive to that kind of noise, it's probably not the best fit. So I think taking it off the live show, and making it more produced, lends itself to being on those platforms as well.
Dean: And that maybe exactly.
Gorana: Yeah. So, yeah. That's a great idea.
Dean: It all starts with building the audience. That's going to be the thing, that you've got to build the audience first. And I think, the fastest easiest way to do that, is with the book, because you're talking about deep discovery you get to... There's no way they would ever stumble across your network.
Gorana: Yeah, and that's exactly why I wanted to talk to you about it. Because you're so brilliant at coming up with these ideas, is that there is no way, because as a new network, or a new channel, you're just one out of 70,000 or something. And maybe only 1% of that gets some kind of exposure on the platform itself. If you look at Roku, you may see advertising for top 70 channels, right?
Dean: Yeah.
Gorana: So people are not going to organically go there and find to you, you have to actually get at their attention.
Dean: That's right.
Gorana: I think that's really the most important. And that's what I was thinking. I said, "Dean. I have to talk to Dean about this, he would know what to do." So I love the idea of-
Dean: The audience.
Gorana: Yeah. And just taking slices of the audience, per show, and just driving them to one place.
Dean: That's right.
Gorana: Yeah. I like that. I think I'm going to get on it. Next week, next week Monday is my content curation day.
Dean: Well I can't wait for 11-11.
Gorana: Yes. 11-11 is the magical date.
Dean: If I get a preview of it, that would be great. It would be cool.
Gorana: Yeah. I'll send you once we have it up. It's actually up now, but it's a secret code, and all the secret ways to get to it. It's on Roku right now, you just can publicly see it.
Dean: And so you are saying it's on Roku now. Do people need a Roku box? Or can I access that just on my smart TV?
Gorana: If you can get to the Roku on your smart TV then you can use your smart TV. I think Roku is supplying the OS to manufacture.
Dean: Got you. Right.
Gorana: Yeah. Otherwise, it's pretty inexpensive device. And I think it's the most widely used device. They have over 30 million devices out there. And I think it's more than Apple TV. It's Amazon Fire, then Apple TV.
Dean: Wow. Interesting.
Gorana: I like the idea of mobile apps to where people can stream on their phones and in their pocket, and you have geolocation and you have all these other tools available.
Dean: And that's where Jeffrey Katzenberg and those cats for working on new TV, that's the model that they're going at, I think. I haven't heard a lot about it lately, but I think he's raised like a billion dollars for something.
Gorana: Wow. That's awesome.
Dean: -. Yeah, we'll see.
Gorana: Yeah, so I'm going to take your advice. I'm going to get started on this and then I'll report back I'll tell you about the other show that we can do while we're neighbors here.
Dean: I like it. I like it. I like it.
Gorana: Awesome.
Dean: Perfect. Well it was fun talking with you. Thank you for thinking of me, and I can't wait to watch it all unfold.
Gorana: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And not just for today, but for many years in the past. Because you're a huge, huge influence on me. So thank you so much for that.
Dean: Awesome. I'll talk to you soon.
Gorana: All right. Bye. Bye.
Dean: Bye. Bye.
There we have it. Lots of exciting opportunities there. I can't wait to see what Gorana ends up doing with all of this. I think it's going to be a big success. And we talked about a lot of things, and one of those certainly is if we take things seriously, I think one of the most important roles that's going to play in the 20s is going to be in the future going forward is going to be curation.
And, I think let's keep our eyes on how that evolves, because the content creation is at an all-time high and only getting more and more and more, but what we're limited by is that we only have 24 hours in a day. We're experiencing things real time. So the curation of being able to create valuable and informative content, that we enjoy, and is time dense in value, that's really where we've got some big opportunity.
If you're doing things like that, I'd love to talk to you too. Maybe we can have a conversation on the podcast, just go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com and click on the be a guest link. You could also, while you're there, download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book. I think that would be a great thing. And then just as a quick note also, we're coming into the time of year, and I've got two more Breakthrough Blueprint events coming up, for the rest of the year.
I'm going to be in Australia at the end of November. And we're going to be back in Florida for a breakthrough blueprint in the beginning of December. So if you want to join us for either of those, or get any information on those, just send me an email. Dean@deanjackson.com and just put Orlando or Sydney in the subject line and we'll get you all the details. Love to meet you.