Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we're talking with Hans Comyn from Medellin in Colombia, where for the past 15 years he's been developing his skills in helping men with their confidence in meeting women.
We had a great conversation about how to go beyond the idea of just providing information and courses, and expecting people will take it on themselves to get the result, but instead, what would it mean if you went all the way and helped people overcome what blocks them from doing the things that he knows they should be doing.
We all start our marketing equation, our puzzle, with what is the thing we can actually help people with, that would be a dream come true scenario, and only then can we get to the point where we're selecting the right target audience of people we can most help.
This target audience is a little bit different, but the spirit of what we're trying to do is help people get to the result they want.
And maybe, what needs to happen is the price you charge for something has to go up, so you can increase the amount of time or effort you put in to actually getting the result.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 170
Dean: Hans?
Hans: Hello. Hello, Mr. Jackson, how are you? How was -?
Dean: Oh, there we go! Good. So welcome.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: How do I say your last name?
Hans: "Comain." Like Kurt Cobain, but -.
Dean: Comain? Okay.
Hans: That's it.
Dean: Hans Comain.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: So I'm excited. We get the whole hour to hatch some evil schemes here.
Hans: Like it.
Dean: So we've had some brief discussions on, you're in E-mail Mastery Program.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: So we've had a couple of conversations there. And in that, we decided this would be a great place to explore deeper what you got going on. So we have a whole hour to talk about it. So let's pretend we don't know each other and we've never talked. And you can tell me the story, and we could take it from there.
Hans: All right. Well, in short, my story is... I'm a, I've been very much an artist for the past 12 years, honing my craft of seduction. I really see the art of seduction as the ultimate art form, and the platform is the interaction between, or the interaction, or that's the canvas, that's the stage.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: I've been honing my craft. I started 12 years ago. I started Autumn Errata with Zemaprium, and we've been working together all these years. And then, since 2016, I've been going solo.
Dean: Okay.
Hans: And it's only in this year, actually, that I adopted the kind of business mindset, that I did more than just try and understand the art of seduction better.
Dean: Okay.
Hans: And the real click was getting connected with your work, because I really felt it was aligned with your, your marketing philosophy is very much aligned with my philosophy of seduction, which is the one meeting the other where they're at right now. And then leading them into a place where you both want to go, basically.
Dean: That's exactly right. Well, that-
Hans: Yeah.
Dean: I mean, there's a lot of similarities. I look at lead conversion and conversational conversion as exactly that. The whole thing is really about, it's, there's a lot of parallels to it.
Hans: Yes, and for me, it was a relief, because I worked, and I got offers from marketers, and it never felt right. And when I came across your work, it felt like, "Wow, I love this," and it has really been invigorating to me, to look at business now, and look at it as a piece of seduction. And I applied like a maniac at everything. And I've been doing it for the past, say, two to two and a half months, trying to get the most out of you as possible. And it's been, I have-
Dean: Sure!
Hans: I've already had a, I see a clear path forward, for the next couple of years.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: And I already had a couple of small successes. So yeah, what I like the most is this feeling of being invigorated by a plan forward, and seeing the small successes, and also, where, what I should tackle next. I can see where I'm, where I think that I'm a, or the most leverage for growth would be.
Dean: I love it. Now, where do you live, right now?
Hans: I've been on the road for 12 years. I have no home, but I am currently in Medellin, Colombia, which is a little paradise.
Dean: Okay, perfect.
Hans: Yes, it's incredible.
Dean: Very nice. It's a little, there's a little hotbed of American friends, Canadian friends and American friends that are down there.
Hans: Yeah. There's a good reason.
Dean: Yeah, I guess. Oh, okay. Well, let's talk about the plan, then. What is that you, maybe you could lay out the business for me, how it works, and where we are in terms of applying the profit activities to it, and what we want to maybe focus on.
Hans: Well, I'll say, very in general, what I've changed over the past month is really my communication with my clients. I shifted really into applying what you said. And I also updated my funnel all the way through. What I think is next is getting more leads. Because, yes, I've been fishing in the same pool for years now.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: And so, my business is, I help men get women. By that, I both mean, having more women in their life, but also understand women more.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: So I start with meeting women, which is both, putting structural solutions in place, so you're more often in the company of women you like. But als, approaching, meeting women, how to talk and then go into dating, and later, programs, and also, long term relationships and all of that. My business right now, or the funnel right now, looks like an invitation to - My Method, which is a free book, and a e-mail course, on how to meet women, without any of the pickup nonsense.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: And so, I give that to people. I give the e-mail course to people, which is an e-mail sequence. And I give them an invitation to apply and work with me. So I challenge them, and when you meet the challenge, I'll give you my feedback.
And so, and from there on, I run other programs, like a $300 getting women program, which is very much based on meeting women. Or it's called Meeting Women: A Case Study Group. And then, from there on, I have a thousand dollar Getting Women program, which is more all-encompassing, not only about meeting, but also dating, and long-term relationships.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Then I also have a, I do a lot of one on one coaching. I have people here in Medellin that come and visit, and I really focus on what results they want to get. And then I apply whatever I've learned the past 15 years to helping them forward. And so, right now, with a guy who's been a business guy for seven years, and I help him become social, basically, because he has almost turned that off.
So we're going out, we meet people, we go up and talk to girls. So it's a combination of these online programs, and then, life, one on one mentoring as well.
Dean: Well, that's great. And so, let's walk through, then, what's happening with the, at each step, so-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Who are you selecting as your audience, your single target audience, that you're focused on, to try and get the best candidates for you. Who is the best candidate?
Hans: Well, I really like your five-star clients. I apply that to myself. But in terms of markets, I'm, really, to get them in, I focus on newly single people, which are both-
Dean: Okay, and that's where I -
Hans: The 18-year-old.
Dean: Yeah, I should back up, then, and say, if we look at what you're delivering... Because you, when you described it to me, you talked about a book and program and coaching that you were describing, the vessels that you offer the information in. But what I'd really love to see is, what's the end result? What's the transformation that you could create for somebody? What are you-
Hans: I-
Dean: What's in your wheelhouse? If you could just say, "You've got all the money, it doesn't matter now. You're not doing this for money." What are you capable of creating for someone, if they would get out of your way, and let you do it for them?
Hans: I can, and have, completely transformed man's life into a meaningful life, full of adventure and honor. And so, and it just happened here. SO, if people would let me help them, and let me work with them, I could completely transform the life in something meaningful, something honorable, and something adventurous. So that's an end result, if they let me work with them.
But anything before that, I can, I help with them as well. Like, guys who want to have a girlfriend, they want to become more social, they want to get past their anxiety, they want-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: They want multiple lovers. They want to keep the fire in their long-term relationship. Yes, I've helped with all of that, and feel confident that I can deliver that.
Dean: And so, right now, what's the most expensive, or the most, the highest priced offering that you have? What's the, what I would, Dan Sullivan would call, your largest check? What's the thing that... Yeah?
Hans: I would say, one on one coaching, which includes 10 hours of structured working with me. And that's $1,500.
Dean: Okay, so when you look at that, is that something that you have a Buy button for right now, that people are taking advantage of? Or is that something that-
Hans: No.
Dean: Okay. So it's not your main, it's not the, kind of the next... Do you want to do more of that, by the way? Is that the most effective way, to get the result for someone?
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Okay.
Hans: Yeah, I would like to work more with people. And I would maybe change the way I do it, and also the prices.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: But in person, yes, is where I can have the most effect with a guy, for sure.
Dean: Okay, and so, if you were saying... I always ask this question, and as a clarifier for people, that if I said to you, "Look, if you're only get paid if you get a result for someone, what would be the result that you would be confident about being able to create?" [crosstalk 00:13:36] Yeah.
Hans: Yeah. I would, I always work with guys, and we agree on the result.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Because that's part of my process. And once I-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: We agree on it, anything we agree on, I feel confident in. Because otherwise I wouldn't agree on it, so-
Dean: Okay. Okay.
Hans: That goes from a very small thing-
Dean: What kinds of things-
Hans: Yeah?
Dean: When you work with people, what kinds of things do people want to define as an outcome? What would be-
Hans: For example, what we did with Meeting Women Case Study Group right now, in one instance-
Dean: Yeah?
Hans: I say, "If you implement what I say, you will have one new lover by the end of the month."
Dean: Okay.
Hans: And then, when people implement it, it happens, so...
Dean: Okay.
Hans: For example, -.
Dean: Okay, that's perfect. So now, that's an interesting outcome. And when you say, if you were to say, back testing, looking at the last 10 people that you've worked with, how many of them have gotten that result?
Hans: Of everyone, of any amount, who-
Dean: Yeah, of people who are coming in right now-
Hans: Yes?
Dean: People who are coming in to your program. If it was, they're paying you upfront for that-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: For that, that Case Study Program, and they're paying... How much is that?
Hans: That was $300, for one month.
Dean: Okay, so they're paying $300 for one month. And they're, if you take 10 people, the last 10 people who've done that with you, how many of them have achieved the goal? Or achieved the outcome?
Hans: Yes. Of the 10 that sign up, three of them will actually implement. And of those three, all three will get the result.
Dean: I got it, okay. So that's the thing I'm looking for, that right now, 30%... If you were making that offer, if you were saying, that's defining your outcome. "That this is what I guarantee, after 30 days, if you go through the program. And then pay me when you get the result," you would have three out of 10, right now-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: That that's what happens, right? That they would do it? Okay. But you said something interesting, because you said, "If they do it," you're saying three will do it, seven won't do it, and so, you're sort of observing, that for seven out of 10 people, the method or the way that you're teaching this is unsuccessful. And I'm not saying that to-
Hans: Yeah, yeah.
Dean: To put you down, or to say a thing like that. I'm just observing it, that if we're looking at it-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: That, you did the program, you taught it, you did whatever you do. But for seven out of 10 people, it was unsuccessful. Now you might say, because you were sort of alluding to it, that three, only three out of 10, will actually do what you teach? So what is that, where do the seven, the majority of people, get caught up? Where do they get stuck? Why don't they get the result?
Hans: It's great that we put it this way, and this is my obsession. Because I want to-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: I want to remove the obstacles. And-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: This is a big dilemma to me, because what I sense, I'm very clear on what is going to be expected from them. Which is, nothing more than meeting or talking to one woman a day. All right? And so, I'm very clear about that.
Dean: Yup.
Hans: And my experience, over the years, that guys feel very strong that they're committed to do that. And then, when the action needs to be taken, things come up. People are busy, people get afraid of talking to girls. Whatever is, they get sick, or whatever it is there, something's come in between what they thought they were committed to. And then, it doesn't happen.
They're discouraged, or they feel frustrated, whatever that is, and I'm frustrated. And so, it turns out, they are not, they don't take the action that they were sure they would be able to take.
Dean: Yeah, so when you look at that, it's an interesting thing that you're... It's kind of a behavioral warmup for change for people.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: But I imagine that if you're looking at, if you can often just put yourself in the mechanical position of-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Being in a position where you might be able to meet, meet women, that your chances are going to go up.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: You look at it that they're, if they're working from home, or they're working in an office, or they're doing something where they're not exposed to real people out in the wild, then that alone is going to be an interesting thing. Do you ever have people just go physically observe 10 women today? Just go and make eye contact-
Hans: Right!
Dean: With 10 women. Is that how you kind of stair step it up, that they-
Hans: Yes!
Dean: Yeah, because that's an interesting thing, to put themselves... I mean, to go to Starbucks, or go to wherever. Or what do you recommend for people, that kind of thing?
Hans: Yeah. Yes, I've been consistently diminishing the challenge, and-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Because that's what's needed. They want... One little thing can shift it, just one thing, and that's my learning. That's two, three less. And so, yes, and that-
Dean: Because it's one of those things, where, when you look at it, probably the reason that the people... It's not about the quantity. It's not about meeting the thirtieth woman and having the conversation. It's about the first one, because-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: That's what the block is. That they're afraid to do that, because they realize that, once they meet 10, that fear is gone.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: There's a great book that I would recommend for you, actually, that helps with this. Dan Sullivan has a book called The Four C's.
Hans: Okay, that's-
Dean: Yeah, and what he talks about is this whole thing, that it's commitment, is the first C, that you make a commitment that I want to meet 30 women. Then the next C that comes up, is that, then, requires courage to do this. Courage to break through a fear that you have. It's not saying, "Forget about your fear."
One of the great stories that Dan tells about the fear is in the military, when he was doing his training, they were doing live grenade training. And his commanding officer said, "Is anybody, who's afraid right now?" And Dan raised his hand, and none of the other guys, they have to pretend that they they weren't afraid. And he said, "Sullivan's the only one that's telling the truth here."
He said, "There's a difference between fear, and courage." He said, "Fear is peeing your pants, and courage is doing what you need to do, with wet pants." And so, you'd think that's an interesting thing, but once you take that courage, and you do the thing that you've committed to, that then gives you a new capability.
Hans: Exactly.
Dean: Because now, I have the capability to go and start a conversation with a woman, and then that, the more you do it, gives you confidence.
Hans: Right.
Dean: And it's much easier, then, to meet the thirtieth woman, than it is to meet the first?
Hans: Right.
Dean: I mean, that's part of, if you were to really get this result, this situation down.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: That that's really one of the first things you would have to overcome, is that [crosstalk 00:23:23].
Hans: Exactly. I've been looking at the right direction with it, but I sense that there's a lot more, that I can improve that very much. I can improve that, so-
Dean: Yeah, the thing is, it doesn't matter to you right now. And I say that with love. Because it doesn't matter to you, because they've already paid you the money.
Hans: Right.
Dean: And if you could take that, it's very comforting for you, to take this arm's length external blame shifting approach-
Hans: Yes, yes.
Dean: And saying, "Well," because you said it in the beginning.
Hans: Yeah.
Dean: All three, that if they do it, everybody who does it gets the result, that you're saying. But what was not said is that seven out of 10 don't do it.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: But that's not my fault.
Hans: Exactly.
Dean: I told them what to do.
Hans: Yeah, when I saw that, it really... Am I blaming? And I am. And I saw that when I do the Profit Activators Tester, I am. And so, I really shift into looking in the direction, what can I do to help? What if I only get paid, if they get the results? And I've been looking in that direction, but there's a lot to be studied and changed there, for sure.
Dean: And listen, what's the maximum? Let's just decide. Your $300 for this sounds like a bargain.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: It sounds like, when you put this on the, when you look at the top end of the field that you are in, if you look at, maybe a matchmaker, for instance.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: A matchmaker service may cost $30,000 or more? Is that accurate, yeah?
Hans: I don't know.
Dean: Yeah, I think, I remember seeing this profile about the business of matchmaking, and that all these Beverly Hills matchmaker things that charged up to $30,000 or more for a match.
Hans: Right.
Dean: So you look at it, that these are executives, these are people who want to find the right person to outsource all of that, all that stuff. But what an interesting, when you look at it... What is the landscape of what people are paying for this?
Hans: Right.
Dean: Like, with, who -
Hans: It's so interesting.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Because I've been thinking, like, I'm reading of the idea that you have, where people only pay, so that you're part of the increased revenue they get after they, after you let them help them.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: And I've been wondering, what would be the price? What's the monetary value of, say, getting a girlfriend? And if we, I'm imagining this, same way that we agree on a value for that. And then you only pay me when we get that result.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: And so, that's the same kind of question. How much is it worth to you, to overcome that fear of talking to women? How much is it worth to get a new lover? How much is it worth to find a girlfriend or two to save your relationship, so...
Dean: Right. And that's part of the thing with services that are not related to money, in a way, that, where's a direct connection. What I'm basically selling to people is money at a discount, in a way. Like they're-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Everything that we do-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: I mean, that's what it is, is that our organization, we are set up to, we help entrepreneurs make more money. That's the whole thing. So every interaction that we have with people, every outcome is really about making more money. So that's the scorecard, you know? Are you under attack there, Hans?
Hans: Eh, no.
Dean: Okay.
Hans: -, moving through the house, we had -.
Dean: A lot of background noise there.
Hans: Okay. We're good?
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: All right.
Dean: So yeah, so establishing the value of it, that's really what it's...
Hans: Okay, yes. Great.
Dean: -. Yeah, because it's probably, and the thing that's valued, one of the things in the value equation, is somebody's ability to pay. Now, a 40-year-old divorcee who's getting back into the dating game and looking for someone is different than a college kid, or a younger person, who's just getting started, in their, both in approach to it, and their ability to pay for it.
Hans: Yeah. For me, that's a great exercise. To put the value on it.
Dean: Yeah, because here's the thing, is that that's why, when I say, "Select a single target market," part of the process is that you get to select. Most of the time, people who are resistant to selecting a single target market are people who are afraid to limit their options, because they're focused on being selected, not doing the selecting.
Hans: Yes. Right.
Dean: So they want to broaden their hope, thinking that, "If I can appeal to more people, there's more chance that somebody's going to select me to help them."
Hans: Right.
Dean: But when you look at it, what you've developed over 15 years is a very specialized ability to help somebody get a result that's taken you all of those years to master, that you've got a track record of being able to demonstrating that you can help people. What you need to do now is to select is the people that that outcome has the highest value.
Hans: Right, right. And, yeah-
Dean: -, select them, yeah.
Hans: Oh, that's a great thing. I'm writing that down. You said something about the ability to pay, and it's something-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: I'm trying to get my head around that, because-
Dean: Well, part of the thing is that we often, we end up, you've got a great opportunity, that is valuable, but to the right person-
Hans: Right.
Dean: It's worth way more than to the person who doesn't have anything. If you look at it, you wonder when you take the different approaches to this. I think that what you've got, if you just bookend this, if you take... Well, let me ask you. What's the age range of people that you work with, if you were to map a bell curve of it?
Hans: Yes. I go, now, my existing clients are between 18 and 68.
Dean: Okay, but where would be the peak, the median, the most common age, if we were to map it out on a curve?
Hans: Thirty.
Dean: Thirty? Okay.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Okay, so that's still people that are, they're out of college, they're in the workforce, they're realizing, "Holy Cow, I missed my chance when I was in college to meet somebody. Now I'm at work, I'm going to, I'm a programmer, I'm going into the office"-
Hans: Right.
Dean: "And I see the same 20 guys every day. And then, we go, and then I come home, play video games, and there's..."
Hans: Yes.
Dean: "And I don't have any opportunity to meet anybody."
Hans: Right.
Dean: Okay.
Hans: Yeah, that's about the age, yes.
Dean: Okay, and then, do you have people who are over 40, or that are getting divorced? Tell me about the, you said all the way to 68, but what would be, is there... What percentage of people would be over 40?
Hans: Yes. I would expect, my guess, looking at it, is that it's more the younger people. And not so many over, what percentage? I would say, a 15% to 20% is over 40.
Dean: Okay. And then would you, how do the people over 40 do, compared to the people under 30? In terms of their success rate, or their compliance, or their abilities, or enthusiasm, or...
Hans: Eh, I can't really feel or see much of a difference.
Dean: Okay. That's good. That's great.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: I'm just wondering about the, whether it's that the people people over 40 have had more life experience, or-
Hans: Right.
Dean: Whatever, that maybe they're more naturally able to meet people.
Hans: Right.
Dean: Or whether that's a - case, or-
Hans: Or they're a bit more dedicated, because of-
Dean: Maybe. I don't know.
Hans: Things they already experienced. What I'm getting from this, from what you're just saying, is just very much, I love this... People who have these experiences, and have it, there's a different set of people that will value what I offer a lot more-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Than most of the people I'm attracted to right now.
Dean: That's my point, is that-
Hans: Yeah.
Dean: We want to, in advance, find the best candidates.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: So you've developed your capabilities to help somebody with this, with a very important life skill. That this is something that can change the trajectory of somebody's life, if they had these abilities, if they had the ability to do it.
Now, so, there's that. The thing that you're sort of faced with is that the people you are attracting, with the gate open wide, is, you're getting everybody. And then whoever wants to be part of the case study program's qualifications are really the $300, and they pay, but then, only a third of the people who are paying you to get the result, are actually getting the result.
So we need to look at that, and see, if you were to extrapolate from the differences between the people who get the result, and the people who don't get the result, what would that be? Have you identified or seen anything that sets the ones who get the result apart?
Hans: Like, in characteristics, or...
Dean: Yup, yeah. Is there anything you could point to?
Hans: Huh. The only thing I could point to is that the ones that get the results are the ones that apply. But that's less.
Dean: Yeah, but what makes them... So I did this same thing-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: For, when we were... You may have heard me talk about it in the E-mail Mastery Program. I talked about our Project Cyrus, which was a-
Hans: Right.
Dean: A case study group, a pilot program, where I put people through a 90-day program for our, on our real estate side. And we took people in, and we were able to graduate the exact opposite of what we're talking about. We had the 72% graduation rate, meaning-
Hans: Right.
Dean: Seventy-two percent of the people that went through actually got the results, and then paid up. But part of my observation of it was that the reason people were not having success, if I looked at it, and almost everybody was, but we were taking them in one at a time. And the reason that people were not having success was that they were either in a market that was too small, meaning, because it was AdWords-driven, there wasn't enough search volume, due to velocity, to get a lot of leads, kind of thing.
So I made a decision that, so what would be a way to eliminate that problem is to say, if you live in a market of more than $20,000 people, that would be a cut-off, then I found that people were brand new in real estate, were not doing as well, because they don't know, they get deer in the headlights.
They don't know what to do, if they actually got somebody who wanted to buy a house, or sell their house? So they don't have the actual real estate skills to match somebody. Or they're too successful, too busy, where they're not personally working with buyers in their business.
So they're delegating it to somebody else. And as far as looking, and I identified five or six of these parameters that I would filter, in the beginning. So we would say to people, "If you literally wanted it more than 20,000 people, you'd personally worked with buyers and sellers, you'd been in real estate for at least one or two years, you ran out of time... You've got time to work with two new buyers a month." That kind of thing, where we set the stage, where, if they're kind of agreeing to it upfront, selected - people for the program?
Hans: Great.
Dean: If you look at that, and said, "Of the people who fail, what are the common reasons that you hear?" So they say, "I just don't have time," or that they're too afraid, or what? What is the-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Yes?
Hans: Afraid, something came up. Yeah, they've been very easy, some work came up.
Dean: Yeah?
Hans: I would say, those are the two main things. Something came up, so they don't have the time, and the other one is, being afraid. That once they're in a situation, which -
Dean: By the way, "Something came up" is probably a nice mask for, "I'm afraid."
Hans: Exactly.
Dean: Yes.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Right? That's the thing.
Hans: Yeah. I hope I answer is, but what I hear from you is very interesting, is to both, for me, to really try to diminish the obstacles that people feel, so they can get into action some way is, one. And two, actually bring the coachability of a client earlier in the funnel, instead of later.
Dean: Yes.
Hans: Like, earlier, really try to detect, "Okay. I made it so easy for them to start acting. Now, from now on, I will only work with those people who are taking those, however small steps I propose."
Dean: Right. And when you look at it, that you laid out the very single chain of events, you have what I call the algorithm for... Which means, if you're looking at it, that it's purely an inevitability. So what you're saying is 30 conversations is all it takes? Is that, that's one a day, is that what you're saying?
Hans: Yes, yes.
Dean: Okay, so you're saying, in your experience, that doing your, the way that you do it, map out for ne the first step. What do you say to people, what's the first thing that they have to do, that they ultimately get, are resistant to?
Hans: Well, hypothetically, that's the $300 program in three bits. And the first bit is structured solutions, which means, you got to arrange your life in such a way, that you find yourself more often, in the company of women you fancy. So if you're living in-
Dean: Okay.
Hans: Alpine Handle, Iowa, and there are mo women around, it's going to be very hard to meet women.
Dean: Yes.
Hans: So that's the first part. And then, the last part is logistics, which is, what is the distance between meeting the women, and being intimate, both mentally and physically logistic? But I think the tweaking is the interaction part, which is, the main focus is not so with guys single or anything, get, being better with women. And in those, came that interaction.
I work, actually with, you have eight Profit Activators. I work with eight keys, and in this, where I've seen that guys get stuck, along there with the process. And then, I give them the key, to get beyond that. And it goes from one, showing up, or two is, for example, being able to express yourself. Then you would be, being able to express your desire. Then you have invitations.
So I have a whole eight, let's say, keys to success with women in the interaction. Is that answering your question?
Dean: Yeah. Yeah, I think that, so the first thing, if we were saying, it wouldn't be far off from what I was saying, even if you're, if the first step would be... Even if they want to, not actually have the conversation, or that they can psyche themselves up that they're not avoiding it, by getting into this habit of going and physically seeing or making eye contact with girls-
Hans: Right.
Dean: With 10 women, in one day kind of thing? Like, go-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Just go physically observe, and women that are, look like the women you would like to meet. Yeah.
Hans: Yeah, definitely.
Dean: So where would that be? Because that's part of the thing, is that they have to understand where that would happen. Is that, is it at Starbucks, is it at the gym, is at the bookstore? Or is it at Apple Store? Is it at the library? Where are these... Is it in a yoga class, is it in Whole Foods, is it... So I imagine, that's part of the thing, is-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Getting them imagining it first, right, and...
Hans: And then do it. Are you asking me?
Dean: Yeah. It just seems like that would be the kind of thing, to have people do the lap first, just go observe-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: I'm not saying, Hans, that you need to go and say anything to anybody right now. Just go, count to 100, let's just go count to, see if you can physically put your eyes on 100 women.
Hans: Exactly. My first mission is that. I ask a series of questions, and I say, to try to assess if their situation is good enough-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: To meet women. And then, what could they do about it to improve their chances? And so-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Their mission in that first week is trying to arrange their life in such a way, that they are more often in the company of those woman that they like. And so, yup, that's the first step.
Dean: Yup. Okay. So that, I think, maybe that's it, is building their... There probably wouldn't be much resistance getting them to-
Hans: Exactly.
Dean: Map their territory, right?
Hans: Yes, they love that mission.
Dean: Yeah. They would. Yeah, because they don't have to-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: That's great, but that's great, I can work along, I can really... Yes. And then the biggest step is really action. And there, I feel, I can lower, I must find a way to lower the entry level of action. I really like what you said, just go out and make eye contact.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: You don't have to say anything.
Dean: Do you ever... a smile?
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Do you ever... yeah, and then leave. Do you ever do these missions, synchronously and scheduled?
Hans: Say that again, sorry?
Dean: Well, I know it might be more difficult in a, depending on the time zone of where you are kind of thing. But what I was asking was, do you ever do them at a synchronous time? Where, if you say, "Here's, we're going to do this from"-
Hans: Right.
Dean: If you think about it, it's easier in the day to do it.
Hans: Right, right, right.
Dean: Okay, so if you're having the after work thing, the happy hour type of thing or whatever, from five o'clock to seven o'clock kind of thing, if you say, "I want you to go. We're going to map the territory and do these things." That having a check-in, and then go do the mission right now, and then, we'll check back at 7:00, kind of thing, and report back what's happened.
Hans: Yes. Well, we have a problem there, because my clients are all from over the world, so we got all different times. But what we do use is Voxer, and it's been great. Voxer's a walkie talkie style, so guys who will, I get that message instantly. "Oh, I'm standing here, and I'm afraid, and whatever." And that kind of walkie talkie style is, has been great for-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: To get guys going.
Dean: Perfect.
Hans: Yeah.
Dean: So whatever it is, that there's this sense of somebody checking in for their mission?
Hans: Yes.
Dean: And then, having the support there, they actually do it. I think that's, yeah, I think that's a pretty good thing. But I think that part of it is, it feels like the outcome could be something that people would find more valuable.
Hans: Okay. I don't understand that. Say that again, or-
Dean: Well, maybe it might be more valuable than $300.
Hans: Right, right, right. Yes.
Dean: If you can get that closer up to the seven deeds... Now, and there's the thing, is that I have to ask you, do you think that you could, what would it take for you to get the... To double that, from three out of 10, to six out of 10? Is there something you could do, that would increase their chances?
Hans: Yes. Well, what I'm hearing from this conversation is really, is for me, is think hard and improve at removing the obstacles for people to get into action.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: So that's something I see there. And then, and really be selective, in what people I'm going to work with. And move my coachability of the client earlier in the funnel, and not allow people in the program that have not proven that they're coachable. Something like is what I'm thinking of right now.
Dean: Yes. You are on track. I think that's really the thing, is to start to think about, do they know that they're part of a group? Is there a, do you have a timeline, that people go through? Or is it-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Okay, so they're... How many people do you typically do in a group?
Hans: Now I had 12 to 15.
Dean: Okay, perfect. So that's good, that you can have stats, or a leader board, or something, a checklist, where there's these 12. We're not doing the Project Cyrus. The thing was, there were 12 steps between getting the website set up, to a closing, getting that commission check.
And so, there were 12 checkpoints on the way to that, meaning that your website is up and running, your AdWords account is set up, your AdWords account is turned on, you're getting visitors. People are leaving their name and their e-mail. People are asking for your market watch, or your guide, or those things. You're engaged in a dialogue with somebody. You're showing homes to somebody.
All of those, that levels are the way to go. And so, you identified those. You mentioned the eight levels or steps or-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Yup, keys. And everything is contingent on just getting to the next key. And so, that's what we've found, is that rather than letting somebody else do something, if there's possibly a way for me to do it, we did it for them.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Can I do it for them? That's yes. It's been a... Since I discovered your work, that's what I've been thinking of.
Dean: Right.
Hans: That's why I say, I changed from being an artist, and, "Here's my teaching, and do whatever you want with it"-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: To, really being a coach, and it's like, "What if I only get paid if they get the results?" I've been thinking about it, and it's been frustrating, but I get some valuable things here from this call, of where to look, at least. So that's very good for me.
Dean: I like this. So if you were to say, looking at the best candidates for this, that's really what you want to-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Look at is... Because right now, I think that's really the thing. I would say that your-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: The important thing is that you're able to get the result for an overwhelming majority of people. Right now, when you look at three out of 10, that's going to be a problem down the road for you.
Hans: Yes. Yes.
Dean: Because that's, if you get them to that point, if you get the ones who do get the result, that's going to be... There's an opportunity for them to do the other things.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: To continue on with you. But the people who start with that, and don't get the result, that could be a-
Hans: A trap.
Dean: That could be a problem.
Hans: I think this is very close to, I would like to ask you this question. I think it's very close and related. Sometimes, I think, independent of me improving the results for people, I also think that the way I can select people, would change a lot if I would just have more people, more beats. My sense is for, I know that I've been working with the same kind of people for the past couple of years.
And I think, for my next big, big step, and a lot of my issues would be solved, if I would just have a constant stream of people coming in. And I just started talking and thinking about this, and my main focus has been really cultivating my relationships with people that I admire, and are in the same sphere, and we could work together, and I present their work to my followers, and they present my work to their followers.
So that's why they're focusing on it. But my question to you is, I've been using your model, and it's been very great, just to apply for me. Could you direct me, in some, -, or give me a name, or something that I could model, in a way, to get more leads?
Dean: Well, so what are you doing right now to get leads? That's the...
Hans: Nothing!
Dean: Nothing? Okay.
Hans: Yes, yes. It's very romantic, and people know me from my past work. And then, somehow, the coaches really like my work, and they recommend it. But it's like it's, I just started, to cultivating those relationships, and looking out at the business.
Dean: Okay, so how are people getting on your list right now?
Hans: By getting the - work on that. And so, they find my website. And they find my websites, either through, I would say, my past work with Autumn Errata, which is, I wrote the programs, and I know the videos, and so, people look at my name. And they find that page. Or I think through my social media, my Instagram, and my Facebook, and that's right.
Dean: Okay. So part of the thing is, you're in the lead getting phase, then.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: You look at that. So, if we look at it, that you've selected, who would be the person that you want to attract? You find that person. Now, we're in the business of you doing the selecting. Because right now, it sounds like, everybody's coming to you, is you're being selected.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: So it's just happening naturally. They're finding you and gravitating towards you. And so, what we're looking to do now is for you to go out and get in front of the right people, the ones that you have the highest thing of helping. So that's a two-step process.
The first is defining who that person is, if they're someone between 25 and 35. You want to narrow in on the person that you're looking for, or specific professions, or specific occupations. Is it best with, does your stuff work better with systematic, logical people? Or with free-spirited, non-structured people?
Hans: Right.
Dean:
Because if you're looking at it, that, is it engineers and software developers, or things, or is it those guys? What would be the things that they like, if we're talking about Facebook and Instagram, for instance, as the people where you're going to meet those people? What would be the title of the book that they would definitely want to have in their collection?
Hans: Right, I'm assuming you don't want an answer right now, but yes, that's very much what I have -
Dean: Yeah, that's what I'm... I mean, that's what I'm asking you, is what would... That's part of the process, is to figure out-
Hans: Right.
Dean: Is what would be the... And a good way to start is by thinking about defining what the how to is. How to, what would be the thing that they would definitely be attracted to?
Hans: Right, yeah, that.
Dean: When you look at Eben Pagan, back in the beginning, it all started with a book called Double Your Dating
Hans: Yes.
Dean: Right? And with Marie Forleo, we did a book called How to Make Every Man Want You.
Hans: Oh.
Dean: How to become so irresistible, you'll barely be able to stop from dating yourself.
Hans: Oh!
Dean: Right, right, that as a book title is, it hits all the right nerves.
Hans: Right.
Dean: So when you think about, what are the things that... If that's what it is, is we've got to set up the magnet that attracts exactly the right people for you?
Hans: Right, right, right.
Dean: Ans there's nothing, the best thing that I use is a book. Just because it's something that adds value, deep down embedded value, in our DNA, almost. We've been reared globally to respect books and to value them. And so, that is, it's really about having the right title that can attract exactly the right people for you. And then, once somebody, once you're at that stage, once somebody raised their hand, now you start with the conversion process.
Hans: Right. Yes. Well, assuming that I have that in place, because... I mean, there's a big argument to make that I don't, but I have the book, and I have the course, and it's all there. And I'm very much looking now, how can I get more eyes on it? And I haven't done any work in that direction.
Dean: Right.
Hans: Or almost nothing. And so-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: I'm wondering, I could see, besides what we talked about today, which is fantastic, and I have to think about how I can remove obstacles, and - coachability earlier in the process. I see that a big next step for the next year is going to be, to get more eyes on the opt-in pages, get more eyes in on my work, and I'm wondering, how I'm going to do it? And who should I, who can I look to, that could help me with that?
Dean: Well, you're either going to do that through aid, Facebook and Instagram, or-
Hans: Yes.
Dean: TikTok, or SnapChat, or Instagram Stories, or whatever. That's where you want to reach everybody, is just, to get in these streams, you need to get in front of those people.
Hans: Yes.
Dean: And that's why it's got to be quick. It's got be something that's, so that they can just, "Yes, I want that," and push a button to get it.
Hans: Right, right.
Dean: Now you've got, that way, you've got a visible prospect. Right now, they're all invisible. You're don't know who they are right now.
Hans: Right.
Dean: But you can certainly target single men, 25 to 35, in a particular spot, and you start thinking about, "How could I just build this list of all of these guys?"
Hans: Yes.
Dean: "How can I start the conversation?" It's almost the same. Start thinking about your methodology, for meeting women, for meeting prospects.
Hans: Yes. Well, -.
Dean:I mean, it's really-
Hans: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Dean: It's really the same thing, right? Yeah.
Hans: It's, that's exactly why I'm on this podcast, the more I started working. Because I said, "Wow, it's like, the same thing. -." So, I'm super, super excited. I see the path forward, I see a lot of work, and I love the work right now. I love doing my work.
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: I'm very grateful that I met your work, and yet, it really pushed me forward. Something that has always been, for me, almost like, a best and necessary evil, which is marketing in business-
Dean: Yeah.
Hans: Is now an integral part of who I am. I'm really grateful for that.
Dean: Yeah. Look for the Book Title Workshop in the E-Nail Mastery Program.
Hans: Yes, okay.
Dean: Because that's, that would be a great next step for you to really figure out what's the... If we can get the title of the book, that's going to be, that's your, that's going to be the tool.
Hans: Great. But besides all the great info, I see two tools, which is this Book Title Workshop, and I really liked, I saw before, the Dan Sullivan, The Four C's, and that's going to help me too, because I'm going to-
Dean: Yes, absolutely.
Hans: Yup.
Dean: Yes.
Hans: Right! Well, thank you very much.
Dean: I love it!
Hans: I'll make you proud -.
Dean: Hans, this has been great.
Hans: I'll make you proud of that.
Dean: Okay.
Hans: We'll raise the bar in a lot of things now.
Dean: Good, and I'll talk to you in E-Mail Mastery, thanks.
Hans: Thank you again, thank you.
Dean: Bye.
Hans: Bye bye.
Dean: And there we have it, another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation, or go deeper in how the Eight Profit Activators can apply to your business, two things you can go.
Right now, you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com, and you can download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book, and you can listen to the back episodes, of course, if you're just listening here on iTunes. Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the Eight Profit Activators are part of the breakthrough DNA process.
You can download a book and a scorecard, and watch a video, all about the Eight Profit Activators, at breakthroughdna.com. And that's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business. That's really the way we think about Breakthrough DNA, as an operating system, that you can overlay on your existing business, and immediately look for insights there.
So that's it for this week. Have a great week, and we will be back next time, with another episode of More Cheese Less Whiskers.