Today on the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast, we’re talking with Martin Zvolensky, all the way from Switzerland, and Martin has an incredible story.
He moved to Switzerland and, through a series of events, ended up starting an eco-cleaning service, and we talked about the differentiation needed when you’re doing something that provides intangible benefits.
We had a great conversation about the kind of things you need to be thinking about if you’re an alternative solution for people, and there are a lot of great ideas you can apply to your business too.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 197
Dean: Martin Zvolensky.
Martin: Good morning, sir. Hello.
Dean: Is that how I say your last name?
Martin: Very good. It was very impressive. You are probably the only one foreigner who can say it properly.
Dean: Ah, perfect.
Martin: Thank you.
Dean: Welcome. Where are you calling from?
Martin: Well, I'm sitting in a car because I had an emergency from Switzerland.
Dean: Okay.
Martin: Zurich.
Dean: Perfect. Very nice. Well I'm excited to spend some time with you and to hear what you're up to. I read a little bit about your business so why don't you tell me the story and then we can see what we can jump off on from there.
Martin: Awesome. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak with you. I'm very honored and to make a rather long story kind of a short one. Well, I'm 40 years old. I'm from Slovakia and I used to live in England for 12 years in Cambridge where I worked in catering. After kind of a burnout I sold all my possessions and I went to travel for two years. Backpacking South America, Caribbean and then I transferred my lifestyle to a different way of living a healthy lifestyle, longevity and stuff like that. I completed my health coaching and nutrition education and after that I went down to my last 50 euros so I went back home and I wanted to come to Switzerland because I know it's an amazing country food wise, quality control wise and I wanted to build some business in a health coaching aspect.
But because of the language difficulty and credibility and in Switzerland it's a lot of stress is put on their certification and history and I did not really have that. So, I was struggling to get by and I still wanted to help people and bring them value to slowly help them to change their lifestyle to live better, healthier. I was researching the market and I realized there is no cleaning company who does cleaning ecological, chemical free way in the area where I lived and even in the whole of Switzerland. So I employed myself in a regular cleaning company to give some insight because I knew nothing. Nothing from Switzerland. No basically about cleaning, just a general cleaning that guys know how to do.
After four months of being with this general cleaning company I suffered severe asthma attack which I believe is from the chemicals they used every day exposed to this. This is just anecdotal evidence but I believe that's one of the reasons. So my hypothesis got proven. I convinced five clients from the cleaning company I worked with to come with me and I started as a sole entrepreneur. I started to clean myself, developed the ways how to deliver five star service basically experienced with the formulas to create an optimal cleaning product based on a few simple ingredients. Essential oil, vinegar, water and more like a mechanical cleaning which is very effective. Slowly I had a part-time job beside that and in two years cleaning toilets, running around like a headless chicken. Slowly I go the traction. Clients recommended me because I offered other smaller services, small maintenance. They really liked the approach to mothers at home listening to them and even giving them advice with nutrition, how to set up the kitchen. I got really into the household and I saw opportunities how to talk to them.
Now basically this is our second year where I became a limited liability company with almost nine employees, having 70 families to clean and basically expanding slowly, offering more services with recycling and optimization of the household and creating a healthy living environment for a busy professional and kids, everybody.
Dean: I like that a lot.
Martin: One additional point. Last year I was present to be the opportunity, also to diversity the cleaning business to another field of cleaning with occasional cleaning of the Airbnbs in surrounding areas which became quite a significant part of our business, but very intensive for management and invested time. It was very low reward and by the corona crashes we were completely wiped out so take almost 0% of business.
Dean: Of the Airbnb business.
Martin: And the private also. Private also.
Dean: Oh, okay.
Martin: And the private of the two months is almost 100% back but the Airbnb is maybe 5%.
Dean: Now that I think about it we had the same situation that our house cleaners we were away from it for when everybody was in quarantine. But then they were welcomed back with great delight. We were happy to have them back.
Martin: I can imagine, yes.
Dean: Yeah, so I think that everybody welcomes you back with great delight once they're allowed to now. That's great.
Martin: Basically now I'm more managing the staff, talking to clients and trying to get more traction. This is basically the story and I'm very passionate about it because I'm doing my own business, talking to people and learning everyday new stuff. Accounting, back office, talking to clients and that's it.
Dean: I love it. That's great. There's a real authenticity of a true service business. That's what you're providing. A true service business. So much of it is about the intangibles of that. First of all, the baseline thing is that it has to provide the service that the house is clean. The outcome has to be there, but all the intangible things of doing that in a chemical free sustainable way wrapped in a wrapper of professionalism and service. That's really a winning formula and that business is a great business. But due to the nature of the way it is it's a linear scalability meaning more clients means more people. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that that requires operational efficiency, operational excellence on that to keep everything rolling.
The longer that you keep the clients, the better it is because you don't have to replace them or go through the whole startup with them, the learning curve, all of that. The greatest thing is to be able to keep them and multiply them. If you look at how we divide your business into the before unit, the during unit and the after unit, all the equity that you're building is an after unit function because they're going to be, the longer you keep them, the better. The more people that they refer to you, the better. So, very, very back end oriented. I love it. I think there's some great stuff. Are you doing anything, how are you getting clients now or what do you perceive as the thing that you want to focus on here.
Martin: So basically I tried to, we are based in four year history I did very little advertisement. I tried social media but it yielded to a very expensive leads and I realized that this is not the way because we are serving kind of a specific target market and target group. This group is not really present in every part of Facebook or Instagram. Until now, we grew organically by word of mouth and recommendations. And this is mostly based on basically me building a very deep almost friendly relationship with every member of the family which is also a little big of negative because then they kind of always expect me to come and provide the service myself. But this is not scalable anymore.
Dean: There's great ways to do that. If that's not a possibility they adapt with that. So you just need to set the expectation. Like, of course, if you go to a, if that's a possibility they're going to, of course, want that. But if you're clear that that's not a possibility then they're fine with that. You want to put yourself in the host position that you're going to make sure they get what they want and that they're getting the great service, but we want to get you out of the actual delivery of it. How much of your time is actually cleaning the houses or doing service now?
Martin: I am training the cleaners. That's the most of the time I am going with them and supervising. I'm jumping in when people are doing holy days or there's extra demand, but I would say still 40% of my time is spent by cleaning and I actually like it because this is how I learn about. I love marketing. I listen to all the comments.
Dean: Okay, so you're using that time as an investment.
Martin: Exactly.
Dean: That's great. Very nice. That's smart. You're probably going to find where it may not be, when you start thinking this entrepreneurial approach now, you're advancing through the ranks of this where the evolution, of course, is that you're sort of when you start out you don't really have a business. You're kind of self-employed doing the work of cleaning the homes, and then as soon as you involve other people in this you've got some helpers but to get to the point where your business is separate from you, you've really got a machine now that can deliver the result of the cleaned homes. So now it's about nurturing that thing.
Even though the training, you training somebody, the ultimate entrepreneurial skill is replacing yourself. That's really the thing that when you create not that you're the only one that can train somebody. When you've trained, four, six, eight people kind of thing the way you train them is largely the same. You're not making it up as you go. So the best thing for you to do is to document your training process and the things that are important that make your smart choices, that make your company's way of doing it. The Smart Choice's way that somebody else needs to know that so that they can start training other people as well. That's how you're going to free yourself up for scaling.
Martin: Yep. Definitely. I'm finding I have been surrounding myself with very nice and responsible and trustworthy people.
Dean: That's great.
Martin: I am looking for this in them. We are in a good way with this one.
Dean: I think there's nothing, the business that you're in is a noble valuable business and when you bring your desire for hospitality kind of into it that's what it's really all about. And so I would recommend for you to read some of the great books or listen on audiobooks about some of the leaders in hospitality like I think about Issy Sharp who started the Four Seasons and he wrote a book about building the Four Seasons how it all started with one hotel and their commitment to service. Commitment to the experience.
That really starts with their commitment to the people that they hire, the people that they work with. That they instill in them this desire to serve, to be hospitable and that really goes a long way. Another great one to read is Danny Meyers who's the restaurateur who started the Shake Shack is one of the fast food ones he started, but as a restaurateur in New York. Union Grill is his main restaurant, but that idea that they have of bringing this hospitality to it. Chip Conley is another one. He started a boutique hotel chain called Joie de Vivre and now he's I think the director of client experience at Airbnb.
Martin: Okay.
Dean: That kind of thing where you're on the right track by providing a really on trend and future based kind of offering of chemical free and organic and eco-friendly. All of that stuff is certainly great and when you put it in a wrapper of really creating an amazing service business. There's no telling how high that could go. You really could create a movement around that.
Martin: Yeah, that's the dream when I go to bed I think about it. To get back to your original question how we generate more new clients. That's the biggest hurdle for me at the moment because the social media did not really work out well for me and I in previous podcasts... Because I remember you mentioned somewhere that the best way, for example, could be to offer vouchers. But based on a let's say 50 francs we have that currently in Switzerland. Because it serves as a currency. Percentage discounts are not so good, but when there is money involved it serves as a currency. But the 90% of our clients are clients who, in my opinion, would not need to use currency to recommend us and I'm afraid to offer them this to insult them.
Dean: No, no, no. You wouldn't want somebody to... The thing that you have is that there are some people with sensitive allergies, with respiratory issues, with sensitivities like that that this is a godsend. They would be looking for this and all you need to say is I would be leading with that in a way. When you look at it, when you talk about what percentage of the people, the clients that you have right now. What weight do they put on the fact that you are no chemicals and natural, eco-friendly? How much of that is that's the appeal of you versus okay, that's nice but they do a good job of cleaning the house. How much of it is just the utility of it and how much of it is the method of how you get that utility?
Martin: I would say that it's around 60% to 70% people are really going with us because of this approach.
Dean: Okay, so that's your differentiator that you are chemical free cleaning and that's really a thing that is something you could lean into. When you look at it I would be maybe first step looking to create awareness or alliances with who could be likely referral partners for you. I mean people who could help get the word out about you. If you were to think about allergists or where do people who have sensitivities like this, who are they seeing about this. If these offices, the allergy doctors or the ear, nose and throat doctors or dermatologists or however allergies and sensitivities manifest either through allergies or skin sensitivities. If they were aware that there is a service that offers a solution that would help that would be a good place to have awareness.
Martin: Yep, for sure.
Dean: And so I would start thinking about that kind of thing and start there because that would be a big win. When you were running ads, when you were running social media stuff who were you targeting?
Martin: I was targeting business people about 35 years old. We were trying with the women and mothers who work and they send their kids home and they would not have time when they come home to clean. And then I also tried...
Dean: I noticed that so I'm going to fast forward on that for you because what I noticed when I went to your website was that you were leading with you're looking like every other cleaning company trying to convince me that I shouldn't be cleaning my own house. That there's better things to do with my time. And I had to go a little deeper into your site to even see that one of the things is that you have eco-friendly stuff. And I wouldn't be leading with every other cleaner. The argument that you're making for you should be making smarter choices with your time, that's what it feels like smarter choices is about. But when you move it into making smarter choices with your air quality, with your surface quality, with the health of your home environment, that's a different... There's nobody else making that position, right.
In addition, of course, all those other things. It's not about trying to convince people that they should be having somebody else clean their home. I think it's that the people who are already having somebody clean their home but then having problems because of it or wishing that there was a solution that was more eco-friendly or sensitive air quality. I think that would attract the right people.
Martin: That's a very good point. I need to look into that one on the website. We are in negotiation with a... We have a- in Switzerland that there's an advertising company who has basically has a database of every child who is going to be born in Switzerland and they deliver personally a welcome package to the baby with all the little perks and the materials that mommies will need and kids. And I'm trying to get into this box as a healthy solution, baby friendly. They really have also good data so you can really target the areas where you want to be by this service.
Dean: Yes, I like it. That's going in the right direction.
Martin: Yep. For me it was like what do you think, how could I talk to my existing relationships because we have long-term relationships. At least ones they could recommend us because when we usually get a new client they are very satisfied. They write on their Facebook usually because all these moms are in certain groups on Facebook and if one mom writes a small review or comment about us immediately interest pops up and we have three, four, five six inquiries within a week which is amazing. So I try to help to poke these existing clients so they would recommend us.
Dean: Part of the thing is you don't have to incentivize it. Often the incentive goes counter to actually what you're trying to do. You don't want to put a bounty on somebody because then it feels like they're selling out their friend. When you realize that the real reward that they're going to get is the social equity of having solved their problem or helped them out and brought value to them. If they're saying listen, Emma, they're talking about their daughter or whatever that Emma is having a real problem with asthma or she's just got such chemical sensitivities it's a problem. That person if they're in that conversation with somebody that is your client, for them to be able to add value to them, to recommend you or to recommend your services to them that's enough. That's the reward in itself. If they say wow, I can't believe what a difference it makes. Since they started cleaning Emma is having so much better a time at home.
Martin: So the incentive would be a good feeling basically.
Dean: Absolutely. That's really why we refer in the first place. Because we are going to get the reward of the appreciation of our friends plus deep down it feels like we have raised our status in the herd which is important. We're wired for that to contribute. This game that we're playing of social cooperation that's the evolutionary game that we've decided is the winning game for the species. We say for the human population the winning game that's helped us escape the food chain and make us the apex species on the planet is playing this cooperation game. Meaning all of us together working in concert as a society are better off than any of us as individuals trying to all just provide for our own needs.
The important and inherent requirement of that is that we collectively focus on both accepting help from other people and having that as an advantage, but also contributing. So we take help from somebody who has other capabilities but we contribute with our capabilities to the betterment of our society. When we were first escaping the hunter gatherer phase we would gather in groups of 150 people and that was the important thing. So we're conditioned genetically to want to look out for our, we throw this word around too much but our tribe.
Martin: Yeah.
Dean: Our 150 people. And so we are constantly on the lookout for things that are going to contribute so we share these resources. We share ideas, we share providers so that everybody knows. That's why something like Angie's List or things like these are on trend because it's so much more valuable when we get the social proof of somebody else vouching for somebody. I know Martin and Martin says that this person is good then I'm going to trust Martin and let them. I trust them because Martin says they're good. That's really the whole game.
Martin: This is what I really also find very interesting. If we get recommended there is almost 99% chance that I will close the contract with the new person because they already trust the other one. This is very valuable when we get recommended like almost 100%. So I'm working on this approach.
Dean: Yes. So, when you look at that what you want to seek out are referral partners who are in alignment with your core thing which is the environmentally friendly, not so much like environmental to the environment, but your personal environment friendly. That you're non-chemical. That's the primary thing because you're inside their cave. You're inside their home or whatever it is so that's their first priority environment. Not even the secondary, the benefit that they get of it is that it's actually better for the collective environment too, but we've still got to focus on the primary thing which is my own environment. It's creating a healthier place for me.
So now there's a lot of people who philosophically would align with that and so being connected to those communities and being so the people are aware of what you do is going to be a big win. I would start thinking down the path of who else are your clients already aligned with or in a relationship with or clients of or customers of or aligned with. When you look at somebody like people who have with an allergist if that's the situation. Anybody who's interested who does air quality, anybody who's got an air purifier in their house would be someone who would also be most interested in keeping their air pure. I have a client who has amazing air purifiers for both home and commercial uses and when I was in Toronto they sent over one of the air purifiers for my hotel room. It would have a readout of what the actual particulate matter in the air is and it would keep it in the seven, eight parts per million range of particulates in the air which is super arctic quality air. And you could tell a difference.
But what I noticed from that because as soon as anything changed I would notice that when housekeeping came to clean the room they would do the room and they would do the carpet and all of the stuff that when you came back in the air quality there would be particulates in the air and the machine would come on to then suck all those out of the air. And we would even notice that whenever, because I was there when it happened and it's in the bathroom. When they sprayed this you could immediately see the spike in the particulates.
Martin: That's a good point.
Dean: It's interesting. If you can smell it, it's in the air.
Martin: You breathe it in, yeah.
Dean: Yeah. I think if you start to think about that as a value add for the people who do air quality testing and people who have air purifiers. Offices that are, if you start thinking about that there's just been a lot of headlines now about all this disinfecting that offices are doing to keep their workers safe from COVID are actually going to have detrimental effects because of the respiratory issues that that's going to cause by exposure to the chemicals.
Martin: Right.
Dean: That could be a whole other line. I don't know enough to know is there a natural disinfectant that...
Martin: There is probably but also it's a very, it's at tricky situation because I cannot make a full claim to be backed up with scientific evidence. So we really have to be very careful with the wording and all these things. I understand so totally and the air purifiers, that's a very interesting concept and I need to look into that and research the possibilities and partner up with some people.
Dean: Because all you need to do is if you had access to the people that whenever somebody gets an air purifier that maybe that comes along with it is a 50 franc or what currency do you use?
Martin: Francs. Swiss francs.
Dean: Yeah, 50 franc gift card for your services. In a commercial environment a gift card is a much more acceptable thing because they're not looking for that emotional social payoff as much as they're looking for a good, it reflects good on them as a business.
Martin: Yeah. That's really I need to, but I'm finding this is difficult to approach the people because I fear that they will not like it and probably this is the better way around inside of talking directly to families. Go around these vehicles to reach out to more people although the Facebook recommendations are really good lead generators so that I also could intensify somehow with the clients and work on that one because that's a really powerful tool to certain groups where mommies are and where they go.
Dean: That's kind of the thing where you look at the, if you're leading the charge on educating people about the alternatives kind of thing. If you're taking it on yourself to create the healthiest environment like helping people not shoot themselves in the foot kind of thing unintentionally by spraying these cleaners and things all around. Creating alternatives for them. Do you have your own products?
Martin: Yeah, we make our own cleaning products. Three signature ones and we use those.
Dean: Okay, well that may be your entrée into this then that your way of this rather than the thing is you may be able to have somebody refer that to people or gift that to somebody.
Martin: Yeah, because also it's customizable because we work with essential oils and when I go and introduce our business to a new client they can customize the scent of the cleaning product for themselves so it's to their liking. So this is a good way to go also.
Dean: Yeah. So that when you look at it how much is the cost of a bottle of your, what's your most popular one?
Martin: Let's say all purpose cleaner for how - to let's say four dollars or five francs, something like that. So it's insignificant to what it could lead in the future to.
Dean: That's the point. That's what I mean by that. Is that what it costs you? Is that $4 or $5 or you sell it for that?
Martin: Oh no, we sell it for the cost is only around 15% from that so that's a very good markup on it also.
Dean: Oh, the cost is about $1 or whatever.
Martin: Yes.
Dean: There's your ticket right there. That's the thing is that's what I would be doing is starting to spread that around to build a list of people who are conscious enough with their own things that now you've got a conversation started. Now you offer these services. And so it may be that you could put yourself in the position of being the mayor of air quality in the home or at a nontoxic home environment. That would be a great thing for you where now you can also be in a reciprocal relationship with the people who do the things that you don't. It could be is there a natural non-chemical carpet cleaner who does carpet cleaning like that? Is there the air purifier who offers air purifiers.
Is there all of the things that could potentially be contaminating people's environment internally you've got the opportunity now to introduce people to that and it starts with someone who's conscious enough to know that they would like a non-chemical, healthy cleanser, home cleaning product.
Martin: Yeah, and in this category now then it's another part of our services what we offer and I think it also could be a conversation starter that why we were serving our client I realized there is an opportunity to create a subscription service for removing the recycling from the home because in Switzerland they recycle almost everything and I did a little research myself and it takes for a family of five per month around four to five hours to recycle in terms of separate everything, bring it to the recycling center. So we offer a solution that when it's ready for collection we just take it away and we dispose of it in the recycling center.
And also we have a solution for recycling plastic. We work with the recycling center. We have a dedicated plastic bags where literally all the plastic you produce in your household can go in and this reduces the volume of your general waste almost by 80%, but we deal with this removal and then it saves quite a significant time for a household.
Dean: Yes, that's great.
Martin: We do also this.
Dean: Yeah, that would be an after unit thing. That's how you can nurture lifetime relationships with the client that you're developing. It's just about getting, that's an extra thing that you can offer in addition to the core service of doing the cleaning, right.
Martin: And many times I was told also that some of the family are addicted to because all these small things we create for each family to help them live an easier life so they cannot survive without us.
Dean: Oh yeah, exactly.
Martin: It's a very nice way so this addiction is a very good selling point also which other people could say we are addicted to these guys so maybe you should try them out.
Dean: Yeah, I like it. I mean I think there's a really great opportunity for you there that just like the way you were describing that baby business that they have all the data and then they provide a box or a care package to all the new mothers that everybody gets to get exposed to them. Well, you could do that same thing leading with the people who are interested in a non-chemical environmentally friendly cleaning product that you could offer for free, one bottle as a free thing. But you could actually make money by providing your information plus the other people who want to know that person. Somebody who's interested in the things is what I call that minimum viable commitment. It's the decision, it's one of the things, one of the pieces of content that would fit under the context of concerned about environmental toxins.
It's there and so your service is one of the things that would fit under that umbrella. So it just matters that if you find the person who is interested in and understands the value of non-chemical cleaning products, that's the person who would love to now have somebody do the cleaning with these non-chemical products.
Martin: Yes. It's definitely helpful these things. How is your experience with the cleaning back in the US? Do you have any solutions of this?
Dean: We have a little team of people that come each week on Wednesdays they come and clean everything. But they use the regular cleaning stuff. You can tell definitely when you walk back in the house after the house has been cleaned. It smells disinfected or it smells like the cleaning people have been there. Which is kind of that reassuring thing that you know okay, they were here and they did the stuff so you get the visual of everything is tidy and everything is sparkling and clean reinforced by that smell of the clean.
But when you really get right down to it that smell of clean is really toxins reaching your nasal membranes that's going into your brain to create that smell and you interpret it as okay, we're disinfected, we're safe. But then meanwhile you've killed brain cells to send that message to yourself.
Martin: Yeah. What is the most valuable part of this service for you?
Dean: For me it's the time. And I'm saying I agree with it. I'm already sold on that and I think that when you look at it, it's not that your job is to convince people that they need to have house cleaners, a service cleaning their home and that you should choose one that does the non-chemical, environmental friendly thing. I think that the real thing is getting the people who are already convinced that they want somebody to clean their house, but at the highest level the ones who need a clean environment meaning the ones who have allergies or have sensitivities. There's plenty of people who have that level of stuff that it's not about the, that's an ancillary benefit I think having the extra time.
Martin: And also from the other side also when I look for people who would want to have a cleaner I also, this is a very good point that when I talk to them, when I do the interview they are more likely to come to work with us because they are not exposed to these harsh chemicals during their shift and that plays a very significant role also and I do think so.
Dean: I get it.
Martin: So it plays a role in each aspect of the thing. And we are for sure recession proof, but not - business as a cleaning. That's what I learned now.
Dean: Right, right. I think that's a big piece being able to get in front of the people who it's already a higher stakes thing. For some people they don't really care so much that it's non-chemical and then they think that the environmentally friendly ones are not really doing the job as well as the chemical ones do.
Martin: That's for sure.
Dean: It's not disinfecting. There's that sort of uphill thing that there are sacrifices that you're making that it's not as good as the chemical alternatives. So far the people who you're not trying to convince them that hey, it's good just like the other things. It's more that it's a much better, safer and it's solving your problem that you can't have the chemicals, you can't have those things. So this is a great alternative. This is the best alternative if you don't want chemicals.
Martin: So, you would say that on the website I should use the old Joe's approach that everybody who comes to the website regardless they go with us they should learn something and take something when they visit our website.
Dean: Yeah, absolutely. I think your website for everything that we've talked about, your differentiator is the eco-friendly stuff. That's why you did it in a way. But you're not leading with that. You're leading with the same argument that every other cleaning company would argue then. Life's too short to clean your own home. Let us do it. You could be doing other things. You could have time with your family. You could be golfing. You could be whatever. That's not the argument that's your lead argument.
Martin: A very good point. Very good point. That's awesome, yeah. Very good. Thank you.
Dean: What's your takeaway here? What's your think through what we've talked about. How as this kind of landed through the Martin filter?
Martin: I think that I need to remove myself even more from the everyday operations and stop micromanaging although I am building the teams that they can manage themselves and I'm not necessarily in there. So I would have more time on building these relationships with groups of possible organizations or a group of people who could recommend us based on our approach or our philosophy. So as you said maybe pediatricians or organic shops who sell chemical-free stuff and things like that. So put more energy towards building relationships with this where we could make flyers or just leave them a QR code they can scan when they pay that we clean chemical free. Have a look on our website and they can come like this to us.
So, we also clean a couple of dental offices so maybe I will go to the managers there that we could leave little QR codes and everybody who comes in can scan it and who knows where it takes us from there.
Dean: Perfect. That's exactly it. You just need to get those words like get it that it's clear that you are a non-chemical house cleaners. That's really a great thing for the people who are looking for it.
Martin: Yeah. So this was valuable. I always love to listen to everything you have to say.
Dean: That's awesome. It'll be great now for you to listen to it because you'll hear it differently than you heard it this time.
Martin: I'm a little bit scared to be honest when you hear yourself.
Dean: No, what happens is when you do a situation like this you probably only heard 80% of what I was actually saying because what always happens is you hear something that sends your mind off into a tangent where you're thinking that's registering what that's fitting like working in background. So you end up there will be another layer of depth to it when you hear it back. That's exciting.
Martin: Perfect.
Dean: Awesome. Well that was enjoyable.
Martin: Thank you very much. An absolutely pleasure and keep well over there.
Dean: Enjoy your evening in Switzerland.
Martin: Will do.
Dean: The happiest, the best place in the world to live.
Martin: Have you ever been here?
Dean: I have not. I want to go but I spend a lot of time on Toronto and I grew up in Toronto and it's always neck and neck that Toronto and Geneva are always among the top places in the world to live.
Martin: Definitely you have to come.
Dean: I've always been attracted to Switzerland.
Martin: It's a bubble in the middle of Europe. That's for sure.
Dean: Yeah, awesome.
Martin: Good. Thank you very much. Have a lovely rest of your day and keep well and thank you very much.
Dean: Thank you, Martin. Okay. I'll talk to you soon.
Martin: Okay. Bye bye.
Dean: Bye. And there we have it. Another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation and go deeper in how the eight profit activators can apply to your business, two things you can do. Right now you can go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com and you can download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book and you can listen to the back episodes, of course, if you're just listening here on iTunes.
Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the eight profit activators are part of the breakthrough DNA process and you can download a book and a scorecard and watch a video all about the eight profit activators at BreakthroughDNA.com. And that's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business. That's really the way we think about breakthrough DNA as an operating system that you can overlay on your existing business and immediately look for insights there. So that's it for this week. Have a great week and we'll be back next time with another episode of More Cheese Less Whiskers.