Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we have a first for the show; we're talking with upcoming wrestling talent Blake Steele, who's turning his wrestling dreams into reality.
Blake and I pull back the curtain on the pro wrestling industry and talk about how it's as much about storytelling and character creation as it is about athleticism. We dive into the art of fighting and its famous personalities like Logan Paul and Mike Tyson and how they have masterfully used their styles to captivate audiences.
We talk about what goes into the making of a wrestling superstar, tracing Blake's journey as he navigates the wrestling universe, and we talk about the marketing opportunities that are just as true for a wrestler as they are for any business owner.
Whether you're a hardcore wrestling fan or just curious about the similarities in building a brand for your business, this episode is a great listen.
Show Links:
Blake Steele - Instagram
ProfitActivatorScore.com
BreakthroughDNA.com
90MinuteBooks.com
Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 251
**Dean Jackson**
Hey everybody, welcome to Winter Haven, Florida World Headquarters. Here at the studio and today's a very special day We've got a world premiere of your soon to be favorite or least favorite wrestler, Blake Steele.
**Blake Steele**
I'm here, he's here. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
**Dean Jackson**
So I am. I'm super excited. We've never had a pro wrestler on our, on our podcast here but I'm excited to hear about the whole process here and to maybe unpack the Blake Steele story. And then you know we're a marketing podcast. I want to make sure we figure out how to make this the best outcome for you. So, tell me the story. What's the Blake Steele story here?
**Blake Steele**
You know it's the story is basically my life. You know it's basically years, I'm . It's like years of every emotion, every single thing coming into one package which is Blake Steele. It's just, you neglect some money for enough time and now they're ready to just push back against everybody. If you want to stay in the way, then we got to get you out the way.
**Dean Jackson**
That's on you. Yeah, Uhhuh, Get you out the way. So this is really. How long have you been training for this? Now, how long have you? When did you make the decision that you're this is the path you're going to go on?
**Blake Steele**
See it was. It's weird because I started out and it was my first dream, like as a little kid RKO's on trampolines and stuff. I got away from it and I did boxing for like about years, and then, probably about two and a half years ago is when I was like this is it? And then, whenever I moved to Orlando about a year and a half, almost two years ago, now. I went to my first class. The first time I stepped in the ring I was like this is it? Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
That's amazing, and so the whole. How big is the scope of the whole wrestling world, like, what's the path here? I mean, it seems I remember, like you know, when I was a kid it was all about. It was all about Hulk Hogan. Yeah, yeah, it was even younger than that, andre the Giant and all the Roddy Piper yeah. All these guys right.
**Blake Steele**
See it's crazy, because it's getting so much bigger so fast now like with other companies, I'm not sure, if you're aware.
**Dean Jackson**
So it's gaining momentum now right, oh my gosh, like WWE, no.
**Blake Steele**
It's all elite wrestling and it's like number two now.
**Dean Jackson**
Okay.
**Blake Steele**
And so it's really becoming like an echo chamber of people. Just getting to it. There's so many more jobs now and it's really going worldwide. B is going all over the world now, so I'm coming in at the perfect time.
**Dean Jackson**
It's great.
**Blake Steele**
It really has gained a lot of steam over time. It's kind of crazy because back in the s, s, it feel like it couldn't get any bigger, but it really is getting bigger now. So what's?
**Dean Jackson**
the path now, Like for someone who wants to be, like you, a professional wrestler. You're on that path. There Is there an organized like farm system or something like baseball or, like you know, other sports. I played tennis and it was all like on your own right. So you go, it's % a meritocracy tennis and you have to go and you enter the tournaments and you play and you're individually judged on whether you win or lose, and it seems like in wrestling there's a little. There's some politics and some.
**Blake Steele**
It is politics? Okay, tell me.
**Dean Jackson**
So that's my favorite, because that's emotional and you can manipulate the system.
**Blake Steele**
No, yeah, it's one of my favorite things and it comes into builds, into the story as well. You know it is. It's weird now because there isn't a linear path to WWE or wherever. That's usually the goal. Now some people don't want to go to WWE or go to the place.
**Dean Jackson**
It's not really the same as baseball and all the D sports because you go to high school, then you go college, right, exactly, yeah.
**Blake Steele**
It's more of the most basic path would be, getting a wrestling school. That is good as good as you can find one and just it's hard to say, but you really got to dedicate.
**Dean Jackson**
So when you say a wrestling school, you mean a training center, not you're not saying like being a D wrestler. No, because most of the people in WWE are not actually even wrestlers. It's not about the wrestling, no, it's a whole different game.
**Blake Steele**
So yeah, like a pro wrestling school and they'll take you through the ringer and then hopefully, the hope is you figure it out, and it is kind of the same how you were explaining with tennis, which is it's kind of on your own.
**Dean Jackson**
You got to figure it out.
**Blake Steele**
You got to go through the politics, how to deal with people, how to lose and win and just how to improve. But it really just comes on the storytelling. You know you can train anybody to do a backflip, but can somebody make you feel a?
**Dean Jackson**
star.
**Blake Steele**
That's a whole different ball game.
**Dean Jackson**
Is there a? So what's the path? Do you need to get chosen by somebody to say we're going to put you on this show or this tour or this? How does it work? Yeah?
**Blake Steele**
So basically how it happens, from what I know, is that they there is a recruitment page, but basically if you're on your own, so you go to the school and then you graduate the school in a sense, and then you're an independent wrestler which then you travel the country, the world, and you just wrestle for people that'll book you, and through that there's videos. Word to mouth is a big thing, but you're just kind of hoping for that one person at the right time to see you and you're never a finished product.
but at least see the potential and what you're doing or how hard you're working, and then they might just bring you in for a day might bring you in for a tryout, but it really starts from like what you do whenever nobody's looking. It really does. It doesn't start whenever you're in there and starts way before.
**Dean Jackson**
And what kind of things? What do you mean, Like what's your observation so far when you say is what you do when they're not, when nobody's looking or whatever? I think it's the most, it's the most important part. Tell me.
**Blake Steele**
What is the point of learning how to story, tell what? Even a lot of the new kids which are like I don't know if you're in the NIL deals the next stuff like that. A lot of these kids are great athletes but, they don't even know what a story is.
**Dean Jackson**
Let alone how to tell one and so it's learning what that is.
**Blake Steele**
It's learning what is a, what's a facial, what is this? What is even this box that they tell you to focus on? Getting a loan is either doing acting classes. I did it for so long where I would just look in the mirror and just Look at your faces, I would say a line you know you think about.
**Dean Jackson**
Who comes up to mind is the rock yeah, he's the best at it. Right the eyebrow, the whole, the looks, he's the best at it, exactly.
**Blake Steele**
The greatest storytellers are the ones that don't gotta say a word, but you know exactly what they're saying.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Blake Steele**
So it's just trying to break down what a story is, and that's where people it takes a long time or it doesn't take a long time, and some people, their best things are their ability to story tell and some is the moves. So it's just what you're good at and then seeing what you're bad at and just trying to improve on it, but it really starts. It really does start on how to tell a story and your way.
**Dean Jackson**
Cause it's gonna be.
**Blake Steele**
I can't tell a story the same way.
**Dean Jackson**
John Cena can.
**Blake Steele**
So it's just completely different. But you have to find your way. You can't copycat. If I did the you smell and did the, it just wouldn't. It wouldn't work.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, what's the? Let's break down some of them and you maybe tell me what your observation like. Let's say, someone like Roman Reigns.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Right now. So Roman Reigns he's the best Right, he would say the top heel in the game right now. So what is it? What are we breaking down about him compared to, say, cm Punk? Or, okay, straight edge and yeah.
**Blake Steele**
The big difference with Roman now that he's in this position, where he's built up so much equity in the company to where he can really tell long form storyline no, it's not just a one segment.
**Dean Jackson**
He used to be a face, right, yeah, and it didn't work. Right, it didn't work.
**Blake Steele**
People hated him for a long time, but it's just because it wasn't his voice, it wasn't him. Right it was what they wanted him to be. This is just from what I think from what I would always hear and it got to a point to where he just from what it looked like he just said screw it. I'm just going to do exactly what I want to do and he played into. You know, he's from the biggest lineage family of wrestling ever and I'm the tribal chief.
I'm the head of the table and then he went heeling. When he went heel it just seemed like everything connected. And you know, CM Punk, see, it's different, because Roman Reigns really was kind of like the golden goose child for a long time. And it took over years for him to even find the voice that built him here. But CM Punk was kind of the opposite, which was the diamond that kind of just fell through all the thorns. He wasn't supposed to make it.
He was a true independent wrestler Like. He traveled the world and I don't know if you ever heard the pipe bomb that he dropped way back in the day where he just he went out to cut a promo and just completely went off script and just told them all off. They cut his mic and so, but then people liked that too. You know how many people want to say that to their boss you know, say whatever they want.
So it's just a completely different way of storytelling. Which one is. I'm better than you, and if you don't like it, I don't care.
**Dean Jackson**
Right.
**Blake Steele**
And the other one, CM Punk, which is these people are trying to belittle me and I'm just not going to let it happen.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, even the fans.
**Blake Steele**
Like you, come to me with stuff to sign.
**Dean Jackson**
go get a job Like he was very like, he was very hardcore. Yeah, yeah.
**Blake Steele**
So, but then again. But it's all trying to make people feel something, Right? That's it. Just trying to make people feel what you're saying.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, is there. So did CM Punk. He started that whole the straight edge society or what yeah, yeah. Tell me, like how important is having, you know, an alliance or a group or a See that's.
**Blake Steele**
It's interesting, because my take on like alliances and group and stuff is that it works if it works in a sense of like the nation of domination. Stuff like now, that like, if you can nail something like that you're golden, but there's been so many factions and group came and have just completely fell in their face and I think it's because you know the higher ups are putting them together and just you know, go figure it out what you have to do.
Sometimes you just got to make lemonade with it. I'm not going to say I'm the biggest fan of groups, because at the end of the day it's a one versus one, unless you're going to attack team or something like that, but everybody wants to win you know, and if you lose, if they can win they're going to take that deal.
So it's really it's a cold business, but if you can find people like the Shield, Roman Reigns came in with the Shield, with Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose, and it just works because they're best friends and they all had a chip on their shoulder and they all wanted to really get it. That's when it works. But the factions nowadays it just seems like it is very hey to say it, but it seems like it's really scripted it doesn't seem.
**Dean Jackson**
Well, that was going to be my question. It's like you know, is wrestling real? No yeah yeah.
**Blake Steele**
As real as you make it, yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, the is. It is somebody at the top making these stories. Like, are there story editors or story creators that are producing these things and having conversations with certain rough pick and say, okay, here's who you are, here's what you're going to be, here's the storyline. You play this role, yeah, or are they finding the stories and it See, it's weird, like when it comes to your character.
**Blake Steele**
That's where they give you most times. They just give you a character. First off, you just got to try to figure it out unless you come with a better idea, which is, you know, probably not the easiest thing, because they've been doing it for a hundred years. But and then when it comes to the individual stories, like you versus this person, yeah, you have a you usually have a producer and you have what you got to do and there's some leeway you know, the more you do it.
There's some areas where you can figure it out, Kind of do your own thing, but a lot of times they give you a story and you just got to go out there and trust yourself. You're a good enough performer to pull it off or to find a way to change it to make it work. What do you take?
**Dean Jackson**
is there people like let's take, let's say, logan Paul? Yeah for instance yeah as someone who's come in from outside. Yeah, come in Largely because he's got such a huge audience. That's the reason he was fasttracked and pardon cuz he's bringing a lot of eyeballs, bringing the heat right.
**Blake Steele**
Exactly it's. I love them, I'm a huge fan of them. Yeah, and I think the problem with rest and I think they're starting to accept them now because, he's showing that he actually puts in the work.
**Dean Jackson**
Awesome. I'm wondering about the time and seen any of his things. I just see the periphery stuff, but is he a heel or a face or out?
**Blake Steele**
He's still figuring out. I would say he's a heel I mean he didn't. I know when he started he would say he didn't want to be a heel. But the second you say you don't want to be a heel. That's for people to make you a heel right right, I mean everybody was booing him. Yeah he's the superstar. He's this young looking guy with the money and the girls yeah but he really put the work in he really went out there.
**Dean Jackson**
He's nailed it every single time he's walked out.
**Blake Steele**
I think, even if people want to be upset because it's like you're taking, I've done this for years and I'm still sure, but if you're in his position, you would take it to, and I think he's really Capitalized on his opportunity. He's really become one of the best. He's really good, really is because he but he understands how to tell a story. For years of doing YouTube, he knows how to put stuff together. Yeah, he knows how to get people's attention.
**Dean Jackson**
So it's kind of all and he's got an audience and he's athletic. Well, that's, I think, part of it. Right, I'm piecing together the Components now if you look at it, that you look at all of them. I mean, your physicality is certainly one element. You got to have an enviable body or appearance, yeah that's exactly right.
**Blake Steele**
That's, you're growing out your hair and you're here to know stuff. It's got to be a memorable one of a kind looking Guy, what's your like?
**Dean Jackson**
Persuade you have a costume, or how? Yeah? How do you present Blake steel, or are you built developing that?
**Blake Steele**
I am developing it, but I have it. It's pretty much done in a sense of who he is, because it wasn't a, it's not really a character. Just the dials turned up and it's just, and it's so cliche and it's kind of cringy, but it's just violence like really you know, if we got into a fight people you're not gonna do a back flip and kick me in the face. You know, punch me in the face, it's that it's violence people. Let Everything else aside.
People understand what a fight is regardless whether it's in high school and people are cried around a fight. People know what a fight is, and so it's just putting that on display, and people can also tell when you're acting. It's not real and who's really out there putting in the work, or who's really out there but rest is a laying it in and because I know I am, I would say, probably undersized from a lot of the other guys. Roman Reigns . Yeah, I got six, five, six, six.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, yeah.
**Blake Steele**
So you got to make it up on your own way my way is just like going full speed, just being as violent as you, yeah would you remember?
**Dean Jackson**
I mean so thinking about that, mike Tyson. Yeah was kind of like in the s Mike in the s, with the black shorts, no robe, walking out to that just do music.
**Blake Steele**
That was it.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, a single guy walking out and then just punching you in the face.
**Blake Steele**
That's staring at you Exactly on the face right yeah but see, but in that's the thing, like in, but you always got it and he never had to say a word. Yeah he just was the master of it yeah he wasn't. That was just him, and Mike went through a lot of stuff, but it's the key of what made him who he is. He walked out with the same outfit on. He did the same thing every time and his finisher was his hand hitting you right in the mouth and you're gonna go to sleep.
**Dean Jackson**
I love that. No, that was the. I think it was him. I mean, you hear the famous saying everybody's got a plan till I punch him in the face.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, yeah, no, that's literally the embodiment of him.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, yeah, yeah so that's kind of so, bringing those kind of elements where it's not so much about the wrestling dance that you are choreographic. People you're coming in. You just want to be the guys coming in. You're coming in to win the fight.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, I'm like every move that I'm doing is to win a lot of these guys. They want to be cute and do stuff for the camera, which I get it. You know, I really do, especially in the ticktock era and stuff like that. We're now, but what's fast, don't last and stuff doesn't last and you can't do it forever, but people just want to see violence. When you go to a fight, when you go to an MMA fight, when you go to a wrestling match, you always what's the biggest reaction?
for the most part is whenever some, whenever something comes off the top rope, a super Big finish, big move. And it's because people feel it here, they feel it, they see it, that hurts, they like that.
**Dean Jackson**
so I'm just gonna do that and then it seems like the hear your ability to talk and and talk the game is really a big piece that is the of it, yeah there's not, as you think about it, the most famous or the best. The most successful ones are really the most outspoken, extraverted, loud, you know, animated kind of things. Are there any, and maybe I'm missing it out, but are there any examples of like introverted, quieter?
**Blake Steele**
See, it's weird because, like I would say, a lot of wrestlers are introverted. But it's just. You know, you're putting on like I would say I am yeah, no, I get that but it's just. You know, when you have a character.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, and it's.
**Blake Steele**
I think it comes down to how well do you know that character, and I mean, the best version of this is all the goats, which is John saying Omen Reigns the. Rock, hulk Hogan, all these guys, they all had a good mouthpiece on them every single one of them just comes from. How well do you know this person You're playing? Perfect to you? How well do you know yourself? And then, how can you say it in a way to where everybody can understand what you're saying?
and feel it and that's when it comes to bring it back around. It's just, it's fundamental story.
**Dean Jackson**
It really is in the. Have you taken any like acting classes or performing classes or no? No, I've done anything like that.
**Blake Steele**
I've done some acting workshops and stuff like that, but no, I mean I've done a lot. I've read more acting books than I've done any acting classes. I had theater in high school. It just wasn't. I loved it, but it wasn't it. I read a lot of acting books. I read a lot of acting books and I've done a lot of looking in the mirror.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, Part of it. Have you done any improv classes or anything?
**Blake Steele**
No, I actually do want to do some improv.
**Dean Jackson**
I think that would be like a big thing. I think like improv and comedy, yeah, would be a big thing, because what you want it from my observation of it, if I'm now yeah taken in the role of if I'm gonna craft a, you know this persona. What I would, what I look at and see is Is that would be part of it is being quickwitted like being able to yeah and almost be.
If you're gonna be that thing, there's got to be a level of, you know, insulting and you know it's gotta be real dismissive exactly for for people, and that's got to come be able to think on your feet. Yeah and say those things. So I think that might be a good Thing if I were gonna like you know, you don't video games when you kind of power up your character in the dial up.
**Blake Steele**
You need some when he comedy go to . Here we need good looks. We gotta know the dials.
**Dean Jackson**
You know the dials on for building the ultimate heel there. Yeah and it feels like improv would be a good thing, because I know reading a book and looking in the mirror there's a great book. You can't, you can't learn to ride a bike in a seminar. Yeah, no right, you gotta get on the bike yeah.
**Blake Steele**
And then at some point to piggyback on the improv yeah. Like most of our promos that we do in class are improv. Most of it is, you know, the five wise and oh. You're here, you're wrestling him, here go. You got seconds thing about it, you just go so it is a lot of improv, and even when you're out there on live TV, it's, you know, a lot of it's improv stuff just happens, you know what to do, even in the physical side of it, if somebody gets hurt or if something happens.
You can't just sit there and be like you gotta know what you got to do.
**Dean Jackson**
Can you sing?
**Blake Steele**
No, I don't think so, I don't think I can sing, you know.
**Dean Jackson**
I haven't really Cannot. I don't know why she's saying no, that's definitely not my strength. Can you?
**Blake Steele**
rap? I don't think so either. Okay, I mean see, this is where it gets weird, yeah. I did make music for a while. I remember that, yeah, but I'm just gonna go with the answer no.
**Dean Jackson**
I think yeah, yeah.
**Blake Steele**
I think what I found this fits me. Wrestling fits me more than yeah, but I'm saying I'm looking at it from the different things.
**Dean Jackson**
Like that, it would be an advantage, a differentiator. If you are also a rapper or also.
**Blake Steele**
You know what I mean, I'm saying.
**Dean Jackson**
The story bars exactly like that kind of thing. Yeah, would be an amazing thing. So I look at it, from how many different ways can you come at this and build an Audience, kind of thing? Like it's almost like a Cuz, one of the things that creates emotion, which is what you're, you know. You want people emotionally attached to to you, whether it's they hate you or love you.
Yeah something we're gonna love you because they hate yeah yeah, we love to hate people is Is all of the components of that, both the visual, what you're saying, the things that are coming out of your mouth and the way they're coming out of your mouth.
You know from voice training or theatrical kind of way that makes but has to be natural. You know we're not talking in Shakespeare, in yeah kind of thing there, but there's definitely a way that you listen to these guys talk. You listen to Roman Reigns and you look at there's a meme going around with him where he's looking at the camera, just with bring.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, you've seen.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of like just saying it's getting the tone right, that's acting in the just you're doing it.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, you're not. You know not the, you're not doing the. Hey brother, let me tell you right you know it's. I don't know if you're. You know who Bray Wyatt is. You ever heard?
**Dean Jackson**
of me. He's probably my biggest inspiration when it comes to wrestling and it's like the only my biggest compliment ever.
**Blake Steele**
They say I'm like him, which is amazing, but the way he delivers, and it's the same way with I think the same way with Roman Reigns is a completely different style he's.
He has a very dark like demonic character very wide but it's the same thing and you, when you look at them, they really believe what they're saying. They, when they say like I'm gonna smash you, they really truthfully believe oh yeah, and from what they're portraying and people just love it. Even if you're playing about whatever you're doing or angle You're doing, people love to feel that because you're being real and a lot of time especially now because you know it is Sports entertainment it seems like we're all just playing a character. It's not really what this business was on.
**Dean Jackson**
This was.
**Blake Steele**
You know we're trying to get a job done here, guys like the, really the top dogs. Yeah they all get it. You got to believe it for sure.
**Dean Jackson**
Think about my dials. It's every one of the thing you know. This one talk about what you say. Yeah it's carefully phrasing, because some things become catchphrases, right, like you think of every you know. Have you got a catchphrase yet? Have you got I?
**Blake Steele**
don't think they're not, I don't think a catchphrase, no like, and all the ones that I've seen, like the infamous, like the Steve Austin. What are the like? They're very organic. Yeah they're very like. They just happen like people are screaming it. So I don't know, maybe we'll see it whenever it's smelling with the rock.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, yeah, and that was just a set it on the spot.
**Blake Steele**
Right it's just, I think it has to be organic. I think that has to be. Maybe it doesn't, maybe I just haven't figured that out.
**Dean Jackson**
Did you watch movies? Yeah, I love movies. Yeah, I love them. Do you like, like some of those cat the lines in movies? Like that's the art of it is making it seem like it's organic. Yeah, yeah like you think about. I was using the example of you know you complete me. Yeah remember that right. Yeah, so that Felt like it just rolled off the tongue or you had me at hello or any of those things right on.
The things were that when it's acted well, feels organic and feels like that's just what happened in the moment. Yeah, you imagine how many different attempts or how long somebody sat in a room Thinking through that scene and playing around with the words how many times I said it?
**Blake Steele**
That's what I'm saying, exactly so it's.
**Dean Jackson**
I think that there I definitely be looking at Creating them in my mind because they're gonna, organically, they're gonna come out. I mean, yeah, muhammad Ali, yeah, there's a perfect example of someone who said every day was a different. Thing right and so you look at that. There's nobody been anybody like that since, but he carefully. I wish I ever could remember the story of how he actually started doing that. But he hurt somebody do so like that and they mentioned it and he started doing it.
Yeah and it became such a a big piece of who he is, you know, yeah and I think that even those things, if we've got to, if you can dial up the things that you can control, you know and really excel at those things, that's, I think, a I think that's a big piece of it. Then, from another standpoint, now we're at a point where you can build your own odd like you look at where you we talked about.
**Blake Steele**
Logan Paul coming in with his audience.
**Dean Jackson**
That's a big, that's a big piece and that's your true Independence, in a way, right. That's where the your advantage is gonna come Outside of whether somebody's gonna choose you or not.
**Blake Steele**
You know it's like controlling that way, right Like.
**Dean Jackson**
MMA is more of a meritocracy than you, because it's a real thing you've and there's a lot of the same story Lines and stuff in there, but it's really about the fight.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah and then. But even above that, like you have see, they like all of their fights. It's all built on anticipation like it's all anticipation, like I can't wait for this, I can't wait for that, and they just figured out a formula on how to tell the stories of their fighters, and I think that's something that I have struggled with is learning how there is a independent wrestler.
His name is on core showtime and he's probably one of the only Independent wrestlers in the world that, like, really focuses on building his own brand, and it's interesting because he's a good guy. So it gives you a lot more freedom to do things and to say Things that you would want you know, and I'm still in the place of like, trying to figure out how to build my own brand, but also staying true to who I'm playing as well not really keeping a line of what is what.
So that's where the problem is, because the character is very aggressive. So it's been a battle to try to differentiate how to Win to how to and all of that, how to build that. So that's been the, that's been the challenge. But then, like Logan, paul comes in and he has it. You know they can't tell him what to do.
He is, the guy is the guy and that's because he built it so. And same thing with the other independent wrestler, which is you know he has equity, he knows how to get people on his side because he's doing it. Yeah, I look at these other.
**Dean Jackson**
I mean, the journey is often a big piece of you know what gathers the momentum as well.
Do you know who destroying is Okay.
So example of a guy who's just for people listening was a place kicker, field goal kicker for University of Central Florida.
He was becoming famous building his YouTube channel and then they lost his scholarship because they made him choose between Doing his YouTube's or or playing college football, and so he stopped that.
Now and I L stuff comes in where they allow this he was kind of one of the you know cases of why that needs to be allowed, but anyway, following his journey of trying to get into the NFL, that's kind of a you know, there's a lot of stuff of having people Build your follow that journey along with you, and I think that the fear might be that if you let people in on the story that's kind of going to, there's a little bit. I think that there's Enough. There's so many people, so much audience that the people who are Rooting for you or the people that are following along with the journey that's one packed but it feels like that they're gonna feel like they know the inside story of how you are Approaching the rest of the world, right, yeah, so that kind of an audience Building I don't know, that's how I might look at it, like that of no, yeah, that's right, and I mean there is a.
**Blake Steele**
I'm not sure if you know who MJF is is another wrestler, but he's probably the best heel in the business of all professional wrestling and he lives it. I mean it was it's like Undertaker in the s. He lives it there ain't a video on him where he's not fully in character, but it gets harder.
**Dean Jackson**
Well, I think that's riskier, in that you you're if you're gonna live, that you know. I think part of it is that there's your, you've got. You're waiting for somebody to point you to the position that's my has to buy into it one, yeah, you got a thing. But if you get a whole army of people who've already bought into it yeah, and you're bringing your audience with you, it seems like a way of Getting all the benefits. So if you were to say like if we're the way of a magic wand and you know it's three years from now, then what would have to have happened to make you happy with your progress or with how it's?
**Blake Steele**
Okay, that's right.
**Dean Jackson**
So there you go. So we're working backwards from that. What does that look like at the WWE level? You're in. What does that mean for you, like where? What's your calendar, your days, your months, your years look like? How much money can you make? What's doing it like being in there?
**Blake Steele**
I mean you, it's a pretty much a count. I think, the actual calendar, think they travel for four days, five days and one for two, but we're traveling, you're basically gone all the time and I mean you can make a hundred thousand, up to ten million dollars.
Just what you can bring. But it's the you kind of touched on already where you have to, especially with the WWE audience. They don't like outsider. Even if you are a wrestler, you are coming in from the outside. You have to earn it. And so three years from now, love to begin to start it. I'm gonna start and you just got to pay your dues, which is just in and out every day.
Just trying to figure out a way to connect to the audience, and it's a lot easier said than done, but it Three years from now, definitely WWE or bus but, that's. That's been the goal since I started, though was WWE or bus? I like two year and a half years ago. It was never and this might people might not like it, but it was never to just be an independent wrestler.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, that's not the goal, right, that is not the goal. And there you go. So that's good to know, because that's where I was kind of going. Is it the actual? You know? Do you look at the? You know, is there alternate paths or is there a way of building that audience? But if it's straight like tunnel vision for WWE, then, where there's probably only a handful of people that really need to be in proximity of that are gonna really make that happen. Yeah, who's making those decisions. How is that?
**Blake Steele**
and that's another thing where it gets weird. It really is. It's not like a football scout right, scouts go out.
That's what I'm starting to figure out now there is a gentleman actually met him twice Matt Bloom, and he's the head coach of NXT. I met him twice. I met him at a basketball game, then at work in Orlando randomly. But there's a couple people that make those decisions. You know if you can get in the room with a Matt Bloom, there's that. But they also have people that you don't even know that do go out to wrestling like independent shows and Look and then into build like WWE is the main goal. But that's not gonna be on people I ever wrestle for. But the goal is you get into an organization where there's at least proof of people coming out of here not just some wrestling place like a TCW winner haven't.
They've sent some people. It's places like that, it's people that run TCW or other places around the whole country that just haven't in. Even with wrestling schools, like If your head coach has an in, it's a lot ease but if not Wrestling even though it is so global, it really is it's very tight knit. People know a lot of people.
So in my mind and from how it's explained to me is if you're good, they'll find you and if you go and search for them, what you always do but the best person in the room always gets found out eventually.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, and you also try to get a tryout.
**Blake Steele**
A tryout is a big thing.
**Dean Jackson**
Okay, that's what I was wondering. Yeah, there like how many people, how many wrestlers are there, like in WDW, or look at their payroll, or whatever.
**Blake Steele**
It's got well. Wwe is also NXT as well, which is their developmental. Which would be like if I get signed. I would go to NXT? Yeah, and that's in Orlando. I would. I mean I would have to say , under just everything, because there's a lot of wrestling that don't even wrestle right, that are signed travel at the time and they just don't. They're not on TV right. So I try , people. The big scheme of things it's not even that much, it's a and it's like a contract You're just under.
**Dean Jackson**
it's like a job You're not you're not competing for there's no, it's not like Purses or prize money, or they're not, because it's an entertain, it's being on the show, yeah, but more than but they think about it Like that. Yeah.
**Blake Steele**
I mean they do like wins and losses aren't the same as a boxing fight right, but you know I'd be lying if I say they don't mean anything. Now there's a way to get over without going over in a sense but and then it's all positive. Oh you know you want the next person stuff, even though it's that's such not a healthy environment. But it is the environment you know, if you want that person's slot, they have five minutes of TV time and you get none.
You want to figure out how to do that. It's really cutthroat. It's just the business that you're in.
**Dean Jackson**
It's so part of it. You know, when you think, I always think from the standpoint of what's their goal when you look at. So if I was looking at the WWE, looking at their goal, their revenue is Building audience, selling merch. That if you, if somebody like has a, are you when you're on WWE, let's say that you do have a catchphrase and you've got a logo and you've got tshirts and things that all the merch that's on there. Is that Driven by WWE or is it by? Is it independent?
**Blake Steele**
now I'm like whenever you're in the WWE like the merch sales and stuff now. I know and I think that comes in and just how you negotiate your contract like people like Roman Reigns % get a piece of that but then some other people. They don't like there is some wrestlers, and I don't think it's a good idea either but some rest of say I don't care if you buy my merch, I don't get any money from it.
I think it's pretty stupid things, but there's ways to. You just got to find a way to add value. Why would they give you a piece of your merch?
**Dean Jackson**
Well, that's really like, what, like why would they do that? So that's part of the thing is where I was saying about Building an audience ahead of time is coming in with your audience and your merch and then leverage. It's almost like they can't deny you they want to be in the Blake steel. Business now they want you to get a piece of what you've got going on and just amplify it Right.
**Blake Steele**
So it's ticket sales. Yeah, that's what I mean.
**Dean Jackson**
If yeah, but that's part of why Logan Paul is gonna sell tickets, because people are gonna come to see him. He's already sold. You know KSI and the fights that they did.
**Blake Steele**
They've already proven he wrestled Roman Reigns.
**Dean Jackson**
That's it, yeah, exactly.
**Blake Steele**
He wrestled Roman Reigns.
**Dean Jackson**
And so you look at that, and because he's coming with his audience, they're probably and that's so much of it as a differentiator right Like he's.
If you just take away, if we go down the checklist, we take the physicality he's, you know, he's tall, he's Muscular looking guy looking guy, unique looking guy, all of those things, and he was a wrestler in high school, so he's athletic, he's all those things, but that's not what it's about. That's not. There's a million of those guys that are competing, like there's, if you look at it. There's betterlooking guys, who are more muscular, who are faster, stronger. All of those things are technically probably better at the craft of wrestling, but the intangible things that he's bringing with him are that cockiness, the being able to talk, being able to tell the story, to be you know, he's used to being the underdog kind of thing Absolutely, and you just, and some dudes just know how to turn it on when the red lights on that.
**Blake Steele**
That's a big thing, especially with him. I mean the nerves that he must have a face going into WrestleMania. All these different things, massive people that are so much better than him at wrestling.
**Dean Jackson**
People want to see him.
**Blake Steele**
I mean, of course people want to see him lose, but it's really above. Some people performance, perform. That's what I always say like fear performer, you perform. You don't perform you're not a performer is when the red lights on. Some dudes just know how to just do it. And he's one of them where it's just when the red lights on, I'm where I'm supposed to be yeah. Yeah, and he's nailed it.
He really has nailed it and a lot of, and I don't think a lot of other people can do that as well. I mean, that's a. It took a lot of balls for him to come in, do a whole new job, career path and just knock it out of the from the first getgo. So it that just shows a lot about who he is a person.
**Dean Jackson**
Entertainer in all categories, the. I look at the whole, you know, just that entertainment element of it and the audience side of it, and I start, you know, started saying about if you take the elements of the look and what you say and how you say it and the words that you choose to say that convey that story. But then there's also the things of what could you package that in that, like I look at, start to think from a Sensory standpoint what's the soundtrack of Blake steel? What's the? You know, when you look at this Is it dark, is it, you know?
so what?
**Blake Steele**
it's a heavy metal.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, that's what that's what I'm saying right. So like who Imagine if you could? And I think there's a real place for this, you know, in Video games that was like that's been a big breakthrough for a lot of bands. You know that are they get on a video game in the building you know what. That's the soundtrack of the thing and they. That breaks them out because people like that's great music. So they become. I think that's some . Yeah, got started like that. I met the guys from five finger death punch.
**Blake Steele**
Oh, really, I love that man. I listen to them all the time.
**Dean Jackson**
Okay, yeah a plane with those guys. But that you know. You look at the thing. I wonder if there's a. You know, it's kind of like building your, the environment, the world, the universe of what is the Blake steel? The Blake steel verse, you know yeah and that soundtrack that's playing in there. The look, the colors, the, the logo, the lights yeah, everything about it Creating this thing.
**Blake Steele**
Maybe you could be a death metal singer, or yeah, yeah, but if you were sure, yes, I scream and like but that's like transferable right, the kind of thing that you're.
**Dean Jackson**
You know that there's that kind of anger. Yeah, if that's the thing that's conveyed in music, so the people that are Doing that. So I mean, I wonder if it's even that you've the official band of Blake steel, is this that you're aligning? Yourself bam Margera and those guys, the jackass guys, with the guys from Sweden or Finland, the all the death metal guys there. That's you know that alignment. Yeah, kind of thing that's interesting.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, it's really important. It's something that I focused on too, and the reason I haven't said what the song is just because of trademark stuff. I know what will happen there. I do have a song but and I think it fits me really well, but it just really just depends on trademark. If the company I'm gonna work for even allow, you know, even if I handle all the trademark stuff. Seeing if it's allowed. But I mean, I think it's really important. It starts from your entrance song.
**Dean Jackson**
It's the first thing.
**Blake Steele**
You know, if I think one of the biggest mistakes is just expecting people to know you are, I like what you can do.
**Dean Jackson**
So this is interesting, like as far as music going a little bit about it, because my friend, nick Nanton, is a Lawyer and he I was talking about. I have a podcast that we were doing called A Perfect Life and I was talking about, you know, the Phineas and Ferb theme songs. Could possibly be the best day ever I wanted to do. I was talking about using that as the theme song for the thing and what I found out is licensing that is a different animal but doing a cover version of it.
So if you had a band that is the official band of Blake Steele that they did a cover version, that's slightly, you know, interpreted to be for you and even if you added different verses or whatever, so you're either sampling that song or covering it, that those things are statutorily covered, that there's just a fixed royalty that's paid on sales and stuff for that.
**Blake Steele**
And even if they knew like, huh, this guy's kind of buying our thing, you still, it would still be okay. Yeah, usually I mean.
**Dean Jackson**
So it's like anyone can do cover versions of things you know, so it's like, and it's a nice workaround, like all the things like all the people who cover versions on YouTube of all their favorite things. It's all standard licensing things, right? So if you're only distributing it on YouTube or you're not selling albums, you're just creating this as it's your own version. Yeah, your own version of it. That's the theme song of your journey, or whatever.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, it would have to be the one that I've been sitting on it for a long time so it would have to be. But it comes back to the music, is you?
**Dean Jackson**
the audience.
**Blake Steele**
They gotta feel it, and music has played a big part in me just in my life, just the person behind it, so it's like when that music hits and the lights, how you come out, how you walk, how you move? Everything is a part of it there's not a single step that you take.
**Dean Jackson**
that is not a part of it, even if you mess up, but you look at this like it might be, that might be an interesting thing to have your like, even if you can't sing or whatever that there's. But being part of that performance of that song, that there's probably some part of it that you could add to it. That has in your thing this studio where we are here I don't know if you saw the big room, the big sound studio. They've got the infinite white wall. They've got a big.
LED wall and I was in here one night one. Do you remember the name of that band that was in? No, I don't remember, but they're like a you know, yeah, they're a death metal band and all the imagery that they had on the back things, yeah, and so there's lots of you know. I think there's kind of cool opportunities there for building audience, like I just look at it, for building audience from every angle that you can. You know is really that's gonna suit, it's gonna be a valuable thing. On the part of the journey. It feels like precarious to me to not to be, to have my future dependent on somebody else appointing me or approving of me.
Yeah, it's almost like it looks like you've got the opportunity to go in. You know you're saying WW, you're a bust. It's like you're on the way. We're storming the capital, we're storming it, we're storming it, and building, build your audience. And I think I look at do you follow DJ Khaled?
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah, she was like I do.
**Dean Jackson**
But DJ Khaled is like that guy is living his best life. Yes, he is, I mean do you know what I mean? He's living life million followers on Instagram. He's chilling yeah.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, he's having a good day.
**Dean Jackson**
And that's just so. He is so authentically him, yeah, and you would argue that you know, and he'll tell you that he doesn't play any instruments. He doesn't have any musical ability, doesn't have.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, yeah, but hey, he has those oneliners though. Yes, he has those oneliners, he's got them. God did. Yeah, God did, let's go golfing. That's his newest one. Another one yeah, he's got them. Yeah, he's nailed it, I think that.
**Dean Jackson**
That's all part of the thing you know that if? That's, you know, it just seems like it's. I mean, hiphop is the side of the sound of the nation. Right now is the top thing I guess. I don't know how big death metal audience is, but that might be the perfect subculture audience before you in a way you know.
**Blake Steele**
But wrestling's like that yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Not a lot of hiphop in wrestling.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, that's the wrestling. Fans are crazy, they're definitely. They're definitely better than a heavy metal group, for sure.
**Dean Jackson**
But you remember, it's funny when you think about cover songs as a way of people breaking through is I think about Limp Bizkit. When their very first song they did was Faith George.
**Blake Steele**
Michaels, I have a down one. You have it. I'm familiar with the band. I've listened to a lot of them. I haven't heard the song. No.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, so, and it's the most amazing version, like you know, george Michael's Faith, which is like a poppiest of pop songs. Well, they did it like. Imagine it done.
**Blake Steele**
Oh, they redid it in their own way. Yeah, imagine it as deathment of him screaming. You know, you gotta have faith, yeah and I found out who Limp Bizkit was from Tampa Bay Lightning every time. I don't I forget when it was. I don't even remember how old I was, but the rolling they were, yeah rolling, rolling.
**Dean Jackson**
They were big before you were born.
**Blake Steele**
How old are you? ? .
**Dean Jackson**
You're , so you were. They came out. You know that's like , .
**Blake Steele**
When Limp Bizkit was at the peak you know, yeah, and that was the way I think stuff.
**Dean Jackson**
That's there. So you look at that. That was their entree into the world. There was faith because the video and everything about it was just and he was singing it terribly on the song, you know.
But it's so, but that's what happened, you know. So there's a cool way around it. But I think, man, there's something if you can create a movement too, in a way. Like I think about all the different things where, when, if you study what Jake and Logan Paul did, you know when they were first coming up on. You know seven years ago, let's say eight years ago, when they were first coming onto the YouTube scene the fastest, you know each of them the fastest to get to million subscribers in a year. Part of the thing was that rivalry that they had built up against each other that you were definitely.
I remember Philip was now, so Philip was seven when he came here and that was like the heat, the part of that, and the whole school. Everybody was either you know you're in the low gang or you're a Jake Pauler you had to choose and you were in Maverick. You know you're Maverick gear.
**Blake Steele**
I still have a Maverick backpack because of the gold Maverick backpack, I know exactly what you're talking about too. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of all. I've watched them for a long time. Right and the bird the Maverick bird was the yeah the thing.
**Dean Jackson**
So, bob, what I was thinking about for that was, if you take that like destroying and DJ Khaled and what was the daily, you know the vlog that Jake Paul was doing of watching people go through the process I think there's something, there's something to that that it's a reward. You're almost like that whole thing. Your audience is like a sleeper audience, that they're in on the whole thing. That to the rest of the world, when you do get a WE that the Blake Steel persona, they know the journey to get there, but everybody else will still be attracted to.
**Blake Steele**
No, yeah, and it's interesting and it's something that you know, even my mom would tell you. It's been something that I've definitely battled of letting people in just because of and I'm sure it's slightly an ego thing, like you know, I built this, I built this character. You know I'm not gonna.
You know it's funny I'm saying that, but now they know now but it's interesting because I've always been in the mindset of like I'm not gonna let people anywhere near Blake. There's no way because the second I do that if I go over here and to do this. They're not gonna accept it they'll see through it but you know, within the past month and it's interesting that we're talking about this now within the past month it has started to change a lot in the sense of everybody kinda knows anyways, like everybody kinda already knows.
But you know it has been a battle. That's been the biggest battle of mine just letting people even when I post on Instagram, it's very selective, it's very what would I want people to see? And maybe that's probably the problem, right now is. I'm just not letting people in. Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
But maybe that's part of the thing is that you let people in under that Blake Steel banner. That what would Blake Steel do, you know, if you take on those things? What's the voice, the message, the things that he would wanna get out there you know, because I think that's everything is happening out there, that's really the only thing. That that all the other stuff that's going on in you know, making faces in your bathroom mirror and all that stuff and reading the books, that's all happening in your inner world and it's so. There's a lot of opportunity to be sorta comforted by that, because there's no risk in that. There's no like putting it out there and being real like you. Look at part of the thing about DJ Khaled, it's almost he's a caricature of a real person you know, but it's so we buy into it.
That's who he is, you know.
**Blake Steele**
And like and you know with me it's really not like. You know I say this, the drawing, the line between the two people, but they're really, if I'm being, there's not really a line, it's just a dial, it's just a, and it really is a flip of a switch and in a sense of, you know, like the backstory of the character is me it's not like I didn't sit down and was like that's the sound it's me and you know I would always it's you, amplified and exaggerated, and yeah.
But it comes from a very true play of, like you know, I see the NIL deals and this is part of the Blake Still thing. It was just like I'm not. I don't really care when it comes to like if people get upset by things, I am coming from a not a negative way. I'm coming from a mean way, but like I see all the NIL deals and it's just hard not to cringe it's hard not to cringe.
I'm just like I'm gonna take those spots. I'm just gonna take those spots. There's nothing that a javelin throw or anybody else can do. I'm gonna take those spots it's gonna happen and that's real, even though it sounds like we just caught a problem. That's real, I'm real. Damn, I get it but there's.
**Dean Jackson**
The thing is that those NIL things are rewarded after the audience is built. That's the reason that they're giving them this name. Image likeness deals is to latch on to the audience that they've already built and you look at, I think, in a positive way. Have you been watching Deion Sanders, the what they're doing in Colorado with?
**Blake Steele**
the football program no, okay, do you know who Deion Sanders is?
**Dean Jackson**
Okay so that you know that guy. If you watch him, coach Prime, you watch all of their stuff. It's well off media is their YouTube channel on YouTube. That you know from the moment he came to college football started out at the.
**Blake Steele**
Jackson State.
**Dean Jackson**
HBCU. But he, you know, turned that program around when undefeated, you know was, and then in three years then completely revamped that program. Then now he's in Colorado taking over a team that was one in last year and now there's no doubt this is those things. I read a book. There's a great book called Overachievement and it's by a sports psychologist in Houston and one of the things that he said that I thought was really interesting. In his observation of overachievers, one thing he's noticed is that they all have what he calls irrational confidence and I thought what a great combination of words, right Like irrational confidence is. Who's to say how much confidence is rational?
**Blake Steele**
right, who's rationing out the confidence? Yeah, so that wait a minute now.
**Dean Jackson**
That's too much confidence.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, % over.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, who's saying that you can't dial the confidence up to ? And is it, like I think about a lot like the luck factor that there there was a great book called the Luck Factor too? That was scientifically, people who consider themselves to be lucky tend to be more lucky, and the reason is simple because people who consider themselves lucky put themselves in situations where luck can pay off. People who don't consider themselves lucky. They don't enter contests, they don't buy lottery tickets.
They don't buy things where luck could pay off. And so I look at these things. That what you're saying, I'm coming for them kind of thing People want to see people taking action and getting stuff right. Like you're for everybody who you're the guy going out there. You know, as I'm thinking about, like all these people who are kind of like really authentic, like I'm your avatar, kind of thing that people live vicariously through. People like DJ Khaled, like I think about Kevin Smith the movie director you know that people.
He's really built a great bond with his audience but he talks a lot. He does. You can say you know people argue he doesn't make great movies, but he makes great movies.
**Blake Steele**
That his audience loves. Yeah, just having that connection, yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, so what's the action plan for a guy like Blake Steele here? We've been fascinated by kind of just exploring it here.
**Blake Steele**
I'm actually next month, I'm actually switching schools and I'm going to Devon Dudley Academy I don't know if you know the Dudley Brothers where one of the greatest tag teams ever and. Devon. He's the head coach there and you know perfect world when I won. What I will do is my debut. I would love it to be at the end of this year. I want it to be in Winter Haven and I want to sell more tickets than anybody has ever came through Winter Haven.
**Dean Jackson**
There you go.
**Blake Steele**
And that's the start. And if that doesn't put people on notice, we'll just do it again. And if that doesn't people on notice, I'll do it again. And at some point, if I just do it every single day with just the mentality of just trying to get better, all the % every day thing, I don't think about it, just every day, I just I don't believe. You know what I was saying about U?
**Dean Jackson**
There was, you know, u the band. There was a great movie called Killing Bono and it was telling the story, but they were dubbed as the second best band in Dublin. That, when you think about it like growing up.
It's about the rivalry between them and the other band that was starting up and U was the second best band in Dublin, but they went on to make it and it's a funny, a funny thing. I was upset to Damon John. We had him on our item marketing podcast and we're talking about him selling his hats in Queens on the corner. That he had to. If you're going to be a global hip hop brand, you got to be the most popular brand in Queens and that's, I think. If you're going to be the biggest wrestler in the world, you got to be the biggest wrestler in Winterhaven. Oh yeah, you know you think about that as a great.
**Blake Steele**
It's a great start because all these little things are a microcosm, you know of the bigger picture and I just want to bring the best storytelling that really just Winterhaven's ever seen. That's really it. And then I just want to from there, just brought it on the scale.
**Dean Jackson**
I love it. It's almost like American Idol. People want to watch your journey support the hometown.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, vote you to go on Support the hometown. Exactly so cool. Support or hate them. Either way, Well, I'm very excited.
**Dean Jackson**
So, three years from now, part of why I was excited about doing this was because I was excited. I was excited. What I was excited about was that this will be the genesis. We look back three years from now and you're on the main stage at WWE We'll be able to say we called it, called the shot.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, right here.
**Dean Jackson**
We broke the story.
**Blake Steele**
Yeah, I like it. No, yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, it's been awesome. Man, this is so dope Awesome.