Sometimes the biggest artistic opportunities aren't in galleries – they're right in your local community.
Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we’re reconnecting with artist Steve Light from Swindon in the UK.
Steve’s story fascinated me. After a 20-year break from drawing, he returned to art in 2019 and has since completed 25 exhibitions, including Swindon's largest mural that moved local residents to tears. Steve's journey shows what's possible when you think differently about reaching people with what you do.
We explored how creative people can bridge art and commerce without compromising their vision. From restaurant transformations inspired by London's Sketch to creating permanent outdoor galleries, his shared his approach to making art more accessible is an approach many of us can take something from.
I also introduced him to my VCR formula (Vision plus Capabilities multiplied by Reach) and we discussed how artists can leverage local "reach assets" like restaurants, bands, and public spaces.
What I love about Steve's approach is that he's starting with impact in his immediate community, knowing broader recognition naturally follows.
Lots of great ideas for you in this episode.
Summary:
1. I introduce Steve Light, a mural artist from Swindon, who shares his journey from being a shy child with a love for art to becoming a significant figure in the street art scene of his hometown.
2. Steve discusses a discouraging experience with an art tutor that led him to abandon art for 20 years and how he humorously hints at a connection to the mysterious artist Banksy.
3. We explore how Steve reignited his passion for art during the lockdowns, transitioning from web design to a full-time art career, and how he secured a studio in a repurposed post office.
4. Steve describes his artistic style as figurative expressionist, drawing inspiration from artists like Jean Dubuffet, Keith Haring, and Jean-Michel Basquiat, and his aspirations for larger-scale works.
5. We delve into the intersection of art and commerce, discussing how artists can balance creative pursuits with commercial opportunities, and the role of art in branding and environments.
6. The episode explores the concept of street art collectives and creative collaborations, highlighting the impact of such initiatives on local communities and how they can elevate artists' reach.
7. We discuss the potential for forming a self-appointed art collective, drawing parallels between the art and music industries, and the opportunities for multidisciplinary collaboration within a collective.
8. Steve shares personal inspirations, including his love for 90s hip-hop and 80s bands, and discusses the potential for local initiatives, such as mural projects and designing for restaurants, to engage communities.
9. The conversation touches on previous collaborations, like painting a suit for a musician performing at Glastonbury, showcasing the value of leveraging local talent and creative synergies.
10. The episode concludes with ideas on creating innovative art projects, like permanent outdoor exhibitions, and the transformative potential of art in both individual careers and community development.
Show Links:
ProfitActivatorScore.com
BreakthroughDNA.com
90MinuteBooks.com
Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 257
Steve: Hey, dean, how's it going?
Dean: There he is, Steve Light. How are you?
Steve: I'm very well, thanks, man. How are you it's?
Dean: been a long time. When was the last time I saw you?
Steve: Saw you in person in 2013. I was just thinking about that. It was when you came over to Tower Bridge. I don't know if you remember that.
Dean: Yes, of course.
Steve: I do yeah.
Dean: Yeah, wow, that's a long time. Well, welcome to More Cheese, less Whiskers. I'm glad we can connect and catch up, and I want to hear everything you're up to.
Steve: Yeah, thank you. It's a real honor to be here. Honestly, I've been listening to your podcast for years and now being on one that's pretty cool. So thanks, oh, awesome.
Dean: Well, why don't we let's start with the Steve Light story here? Yeah, Because you're doing some pretty cool things, so I'd love to maybe start there, and then we can jump off to whatever you'd like to focus on.
Steve: Yeah sure, when do you want me to start from?
Dean: Well, let's see so you were born and then we're here today. And what happened in between?
Steve: Yeah, I was wondering whether to go that far back, but yeah, so yeah, let's start from like Well, first of all, let's address your accent.
Dean: So you're from Alabama? Yeah, is that what you said?
Steve: I'm from the west of England so I lost my accent when I, when I met you, I moved to London, it kind of got rid of it. But I'm towards Bristol, which is the west side. I'm in a place called Swindon and when I was younger I had a stronger accent. But yeah, when speaking of that, when I was younger, I was a really shy kid, loved drawing a lot, so I kept myself to myself, spent hours just drawing, copying out of nature books, making up Nintendo you all remember Nintendo Entertainment System back in the day drawing like making video game covers and stuff like that, like that. So it's my way of kind of getting away from the world and kind of what I now know as the flow state, just being really engaged.
So, yeah, I was really into drawing. And then fast forward a couple of years later I started. I was studying just before college, so the level just before college and my art tutor wasn't very supportive and he told me I can't draw large scale. We're doing this large scale drawing project on like massive pieces of paper. And he said that and I I just I was just really annoyed and I dropped out of his class and yeah, didn't do anything for 20 years.
Dean: Wow, isn't that amazing. Yeah, and have a thing. I mean that's.
Steve: I know.
Dean: Are you Banksy? I can't really say you can't say either way.
That's so funny. You know my only thing about that.
Dean: you said Bristol. Yeah, I was at the Hotel de Vente in Bristol.
Steve: Yeah. It's great but.
Dean: I saw all these original Banksy's in the place. That's where he's from right.
Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Bristol's got a lot of street art. It's kind of it brings a lot of tourism there. But I think Swindon you've probably never heard of Swindon, a lot of listeners won't have, but it's kind of a railway heritage town. So they built the Great Western Railway. They had, like the main hub there. So it was quite bustling back in the day. But now it's kind of there's not much here and there's no really focal points for tourism. But that said, there's been quite a street art boom. So I started doing some murals. I never done a mural in my life and then I just decided to give it a go. Yeah, and.
I painted Swindon's biggest mural with a group of artists on the side of this tailor, so it was like a big wall with some graffiti on. I'm not against graffiti, but looked it was just like the wall was a bit run down, it had a few tags on it and it was a bit of an eyesore. So we painted there was 10 of us and we painted like one section each and it just the response from the local community. They were like people came up to us crying which we didn't expect Like they were saying thank you, we walk past this going to work and it brightened up our day and that's one of the things I love about art. It just especially public art as well. You don't have to pay to go into a gallery, you can just see it on the streets amazing, the transformative.
Dean: You know what the transformation that art can have just in a community. So I live in Winter Haven, Florida, and there's, you know, all throughout town there are these large public, you know, mural type of things that are just beautiful. Some of them, you know, and that's that's amazing. Some of them are subtle and some, but they just have a really neat effect on the way you feel about the environment or elevates things Absolutely, yeah, and especially like a town in Swindon.
Steve: Like I said, it's an old industrial town and there's this really beautiful. It's in the countryside and you can drive for 10 minutes and you're out in like the absolute sticks. So all the street art that's been appearing like. When we did did this mural, there was a bit of a street art boom after that. So we had swindon paint fest for the past couple of years. So we've had artists from all over the country come into swindon and put their mark on different walls, different shopkeepers and people in the buildings. Let us use it as a blank canvas and it's.
There's been so many popped up in the past two years, so I'm hoping it's gonna bring more people into the town to see that. So yeah, it's been.
Dean: It's been pretty cool I love it, we had. I went to. I went to a banksy exhibit in amsterdam, oh nice.
And then the next summer I was in Toronto and the exhibit was coming to Toronto and somebody stole a Banksy from the from the exhibit just no way walked in took it off the wall and walked out and I it's one of my favorite moments ever because on where I was in Yorkville there was a billboard that was promoting the Banksy exhibit and it was, like you know, 79 original Banksy's or whatever. And I took a picture of it and with my uh, you know photo editing thing, I scratched it out and put 78. I thought somebody quick, come over with a ladder and we can do this on the real billboard oh, brilliant, and it would have been funny because it's so appropriate.
You know that for a guy who's you know whose main thing is is, you know, graffiti type stuff, he would totally have to approve of that yeah, he would.
Steve: He would have loved that, I would imagine.
Dean: Yeah very funny. So how does that? What is that? What are you doing now?
Steve: that you're. Yeah so, yeah. So a bit more about my history. When I met you in 2013, I was. I was doing a bit of freelance web design, so I've got a background in that as well, and also I was running anxiety groups in London.
So when I come to yeah, when I come to meet you, I wrote a short book called the influential introvert, part of your marketing program. I never did publish that actually still on my Dropbox but I did publish another book called social Anxiety Inside Out in 2013. So you definitely inspired me from going through the whole process and getting it down and then, even though I didn't publish the one we worked on, I published another one. So that, yeah, I haven't really promoted it, but it sold a bit and it's just nice being out there in the world. So, yeah, I was running these groups. I set up different like public speaking fear groups and stuff all over london and then it became.
It's still running now on meetupcom. It's like it's the biggest one. I think it might be the biggest one in the world I'll have to check but it's definitely the biggest one in the uk there's. There was about 15 000 people on the meetup group or something. So I handed that over to some people and then I moved out of London back to Swindon from this area. So then I started.
As I said before, I didn't draw for 20 years, so I picked it up in 2019. And the catalyst for that was I was reading a blog post by Thomas J Bevan and it said he just gave three questions. It was what did you like doing as a child? What did you spend most of your time doing as a child? And the third one was what did people say you were good at as a child? And all of mine were video games and drawing. Yeah, and I thought I don't really want to pursue a career in video games. I don't play games anymore, but I was big into it back in the day and I thought I'll just get back into drawing again. So I started drawing. It was really hard getting back into it because you've got your own inner critic judging what you're doing as you're doing it and you're like this is rubbish. But I started off by drawing my dog and this series of my eight little drawings. When I look back at them now, five years later, they're like. I really like them.
And that's the thing about art really you as an artist, you you create lots of different work and you might not like it, but your mind can easily be changed over time. You you might not like it when you're creating it, you might like it when you create it, and that's the same for people viewing your art. So there's no point dwelling too much on what other people think of it, because their mind might change over time anyway. So, yeah, I got back into that and then two years after that, we had all lockdown and stuff. So I was fortunate I could work at home in my day job. I did a load of painting, experimenting, and then in 2011, I got my own art studio. So in the town centre here there was like an old post office and a group of artists took it over because it was owned by the council and they just gave it to us to use. Just pay them a minimal fee just to use it, just pay, pay them a minimal fee just to use it. So there's about I think there's about 25 artists all in this area in the in the center of town. We've all got our own separate studios and it's really cool and it's since.
When I got my studio. I was thinking I want to pursue this as a career. I'm working a day job in doing kind of web stuff and everything and over since 2021 started having exhibitions. I've had work sent over to Germany, had a few exhibitions in London and yeah, I've I think I've probably had about 25 different exhibitions over the past three years. So I've really kind of don't want to use the word hustle, but it kind of feels like I've. I've been pushing myself to get my work out there and do different exhibitions and it's quite hard at times if you don't sell any work because you put all this effort into it and and people come along might not buy anything they might enjoy it.
It but it's, yeah, it's. It is tough, but I've got this, got this urge in me to continue to pursue it until it becomes a full-time.
Dean: Full-time thing style. What's your artistic style? Who would or what kind of? How would you describe what you do?
Steve: in a tongue, tongue and cheek way. I like to say I'm the modern jean de buffet, who was a french artist who I compare myself to him because he he actually started when he was 40 I know, 41 actually and I'm 41 now started, a bit younger but he was self-taught, he, he made his own curriculum, he learned, learned philosophy, read different books on art and art history and stuff like that and he he's got kind of a kind of a naive outsider style. So it's not I have to send you a link to his work afterwards, but it's kind of, I guess, childlike. I guess I like to see myself as an outsider artist, so I paint. Just to explain, outsider artists traditionally means you're not formally taught, so you haven't done an art degree or a master's degree, so you're self-taught basically. So my style is I call myself a figurative expressionist, so it's basically yeah, yeah, Okay.
I paint figures in an expressive way, so it's it's always around stuff that's going on in my life and in in in my inner world. And I like to explore death as well, not in a morbid way, but we heard of the philosophy memento mori. Yeah, it's viewing death in a way. We're all gonna die, aren't we? It's a inevitable fact, but we don't. We put it to the back of our minds. But memento mori is kind of appreciating oh, you've got him up on the screen. Yeah, appreciating your life and living it to the fullest, basically so I love these um colors yeah you know this kind of stuff.
Dean: This is like a brighter hey. This one here reminds me of who was the andy warhol's friend in New York.
Steve: He's become really what not Keith Haring? Or?
Dean: well, it is kind of Keith Haring, like right, like the color, the graphic elements of it. That's kind of Keith.
Steve: Haring like, but not, uh, jean-michel Basquiat, basquiat, yeah, yeah, these ones over here, kind of, but they're brighter, not as dark.
Dean: And yeah, imposing, yeah, okay, so I get a sense of what the vibe is then that's, that's pretty. Yeah, the big scale. Do you do big scale things like this?
Steve: not, I haven't done that big apart from the mural stuff, but I'll send you if you go to type in me you can just have a have a quick look, okay, yeah, yes, yeah. But yeah, an interesting thing about Jean Dubuffet he was actually an inspiration to Keith Haring and Basquiat.
Dean: Oh, okay, so that's great Look at that.
Steve: So you see the influence, like the kind of doodly style of Keith Haring, from that and you see Basquiat's influence. So if you go to artwork on there you can kind of seeodly style of keith harring from that and you see baskets influence so if you go to artwork on there, you can kind of see yeah I've got most of my stuff on there, so I I documented my journey of yeah, I did a, I did a nude painting.
I'll say I'll say a bit about that quickly. It's. I saw this guy's work called forgotten his name. It'll come to me say a bit about that quickly. I saw this guy's work called I've forgotten his name. It'll come to me in a bit. This artist did a lot of nudes of himself where his penis was strangling his. His penis was extremely long and it was choking him and I got really pissed off by it. It was like I don't know why I was triggered. It was really weird and I was triggered by it. And then I decided I'll paint myself because I've I've had body issues. I've just been overweight all my life, basically from childhood, and I thought I'd just face up to it with painting a self portrait and going through that. The process looking at myself, kind of projecting this in a kind of feeling for myself on the canvas and then looking back at it afterwards was quite, quite cathartic. So a lot of my work is cathartic around that's a really my expression like that's right in my, that's right in my style.
Dean: I'm thinking I will tour, I'll show you my. In my dining room I have a piece called Men on Forks. Oh nice.
Steve: I love that.
Dean: Yeah, so it's big. I mean it's 10 feet by 8.
Steve: Is that one canvas, then, or was that four? No, it's four, yeah, four on wood.
Dean: It's not canvas there.
Steve: Yeah, yeah. So that's like what is it?
Dean: A triptych is free what was it for so it's along the bottom. It says do not go gentle into that.
Good night along all four of them yeah mm-hmm yeah, oh, that's cool so I do art Like it's really as interesting as I. We have the conversation like I'm kind of fascinated by the whole, by the whole thing Like art, like music. The thing about it is that art is not like from a marketing standpoint. Art is not sold or mark it's, it's discovered and it either vibes with you, it speaks to your soul, or it doesn't. You're like, you can't be. There's no intellectual thing of being convinced that this is good art. You either. It's like music. It either resonates with your soul or it doesn't yeah that's so.
That's an advantage. Is that part of the thing is having your art be exposed to yeah nothing about. There's nothing qualitative per se. There is a little bit, but not some of the artists that sell for the. You know the high selling artists are not really. It's not because of their artistic ability yeah, right, it's. Yeah, of course yeah, the whole packaging and the environment and the whole thing that goes into it. Like, I think you think about the top, you think about Damien Hirst as an example of you know the dots as things.
I saw a great. I saw a great thing. That was a meme, it was a comparison of. It was you, you know, young damien hearst, at nine years old, and it was all these like sort of unround you know dots on a page that he himself and then it was davian at today, and it was the same thing except the perfect circles, and it was david with help, yeah, because he doesn't even paint the circles anymore, you know, yeah he gets assistance to do it.
Steve: And people might frown upon that, but the more I've got into art, I understand that a lot of it is the concept behind it. It's the art, right.
Dean: There's something between the art and the craft. Yeah, you look at many famous artists like that, jeff koons. You look at shahouli, the glass artist yeah, I love him yeah he doesn't do it because he can't, because of his eye right. So yeah, yeah famous, you know, one of probably the world-renowned art or uh glass artist, and doesn't he just executive, produces it. Basically it's his, his art, his vision, idea. It's kind of like the difference between being an author and a writer.
Steve: It's saying being an artist or a craftsman you know, yeah, yeah, it's almost like chihuly is like a film director. He's directing the crew and they're building like the piece and he's making sure it's it fits his vision. Yeah, because he does some huge pieces and he couldn't just do that on his own yeah, he did the at the bellagio, did the whole yeah entry yeah, so what's your vision?
Dean: that for this? Where, where is this, where's this going for you?
Steve: good question. Well, I know it's gonna, I know it's gonna happen at some point that I'm gonna move into into this full time, but the bigger vision that inspires me is leading by example and teaching not teaching, but showing younger generations that they can, they can become an artist and it's a, it's a viable career because you it's like so many there's not really like if you want to be a doctor or something like that, there's a proven path that you have to follow to become a doctor and then you can specialize. But with becoming an artist, even if you do a master's degree at a good university, not everyone becomes a, a top artist, let alone an artist that can support themselves. So it's the whole. Becoming an artist is an art in itself. I like to say it's not. There's not a science to becoming an artist or or to marketing yourself, like you were saying before. So I want to even further along.
I want to set up a foundation called the Slart Foundation and and leave a legacy to to support children with funding and young adults, cause it's it's hard to get out there, really it's, and I just, I just want to do bigger and bigger pieces and be being the big galleries and stuff like that as well, because I've been torn between living a kind of quietish life and just just painting in my spare time. But there seems to be a pull towards like doing it as a, as a career, and I can't I can't shake that. It seems more of a more of a kind of calling and I can't shake that. It seems more of a kind of calling and I guess because you're a marketing genius, I don't know. I just think I need some kind of simple guidance that I can follow. It just seems like it's a bit of a minefield on where to start. I'm still doing loads on getting myself out there and doing exhibitions and stuff, but I don't know yeah, it's an interesting thing.
Dean: You know there's so many, you know, like being on the being in in your, on the being in in your world here, you know, of what you're, what you're trying to do. I was just looking. I have a. I have an original from this guy, tiggy picehurst, in. He's a new york artist and you know he's got a similar, similar style in that. That's why I was kind of drawn to your, to your things. I was looking, yeah, they had, if he had a, if there was an image online of the one that I have. The one I have is called is a guggenheim one, but you can see the style oh, that's cool yeah, he has like very, that's kind of it.
The one I have is about the Guggenheim, but it's constantly under construction. You can see that.
Steve: Oh nice.
Dean: Yeah, so that's what I have, similar, but I have an original in my office.
Steve: Yeah, that's a bit like Jean Dubuffet as well, actually. Yeah.
Dean: Well, it's very so. I think that there's something really cool about that. You know, like, how do you feel philosophically about the art and commerce kind of combination there are, because sometimes people are, are they don't? The separation of church and yeah, yeah like commercializing oh, absolutely no.
Steve: I'm not one of those artists, you, who is totally against marketing and stuff. I see the power of creating a specific commission for someone, but I am definitely, I'm definitely open to marketing my work. I'm fine with that.
Dean: I wonder what would be like. I look at the, you know, I wonder, especially in, you know, in brands. You know, like I think, if you look at fashion or personal brands or you know, up and coming, that so much of interpreting that whole vibe could be totally supported with art. That is, you know, like I think about. I remember hearing a story years ago, when braniff airlines was getting started, that they hired an artist to make. Do you know, create the whole environment, like the whole thing in art, basically like chose, oh nice, for the planes and the interiors and the uniforms and the, the artwork around the thing, and I think that that could really like uniquely elevate something you know, but it's, it's got, it's a fine line of go, of going into like commercial art in that kind of uh a way.
Yeah, do you are? Do you afraid or feel like someone who goes over to that side is like betraying the other side, the the artistic side, or oh no, definitely not.
Steve: I'm open to stuff like I think I've. I've learned that it's okay to do both. It's the weird thing is well, it's not weird, but I'm doing a day job, which is is okay, you know. You know I can do it and it's it's fine. And then some people might say I'm not going to create a piece for someone commercially, but the way I look at it now wouldn't. Wouldn't it be better if I create, if I'm still creating something and getting paid for it, rather than doing a day job?
which is kind of okay, do you?
Dean: know what I mean it's, it's like.
Steve: Surely that's a hundred times better than yeah yeah, so I'm definitely open to any kind of avenues, because I can still create the art I want as well, and then that kind of takes the pressure off. But, yeah, I I feel like a few people have advised me to stick to my own style, because I'm sure a lot of artists experience this. You look at all these amazing paintings and they're like modern day Renaissance paintings, hyper-realistic and amazing lighting and stuff like that, which is cool, and they're amazing painters, but I have no inkling to want to do that or have any enjoyment in learning that.
Dean: Yeah, so I have a I have a designer that works with me who is an amazing pencil artist, like, but he's photo realistic, like he could take a picture of something. He can completely recreate it with a pencil, but there's the way I look at it's like. That is a different creative process than what you're doing is representative. It's not a duplication of something.
Steve: Yeah, that's right.
Dean: You're the genesis of the idea I wonder you think about when I was in London. There's a restaurant called Sketch. I don't know if you know about it.
Steve: Yeah, yeah we went there. We went there after that. Oh, you went with us. Yeah, okay, so you were there.
Dean: So, yeah, yeah that was such a thing. When, when, when you were there, when we were there together, was it the one where every one of a kind, where every piece in the restaurant was, was an original, or was it another theme? I can't remember who the artist was then, but for me, yeah this is where there's a restaurant in london and they they changed the. Is it every year or eight months or something?
Steve: um, switch it up? Yeah, I can't remember.
Dean: They change it semi-regularly yeah, so yeah, I've been there a few times. One of the times that I was there was original and every piece in the every cup, every glass, every fork, spoon, chair, table, everything was one of one. There was only one of it in the in the things. So, yeah, it was a really interesting, really interesting thing.
So I remember like doing things for you know, exposure like that, in a way like imagine if you took a regular restaurant, for instance that and you put a slart filter over the environment, over the thing, over the whole place from the menus, from the surroundings, from the almost, like you know, being the artistic vision of the place. What kind of an impact that could have on on a restaurant as?
Steve: a differentiator.
Dean: You know, yeah, sally hogshead uh, good friend she's. She wrote a book called how to fascinate, but she's working on a new book called different is better than better. And you know, and this is kind of what's neat about artwork is that no matter what it's original, it's like a there's only one, steve light. There's only one slark, you know, look to things that you can pick that out, you know.
Steve: Yeah, oh, oh god, I love that idea. Actually, you are a genius. I wouldn't have made that link doing potentially doing that locally or something.
Dean: Yeah, like this is where you're kind of I've been, I've been playing around, so this I've been looking at and identified what I call the VCR formula and it's, you know, what has allowed Kylie Jenner and Mr Beast and all these people to become billionaires. And the formula is vision plus capabilities multiplied by reach, less capabilities multiplied by reach. And so, if we look at it, that you know what you, what any art needs, is reach. You need to be seen, and the more people see, the more you, the more people resonate. You know, and I think that that when you look at the idea of creating a global, like art is international and global. It doesn't. You know what I mean.
It's like international language, there's no interpretation needed, or for art, which is a fantastic thing, but but the reach, you know, there's no way to reach 8 billion people with your art in a way that you can narrow the focus of, if I'm applying the eight profit activators, to a model of how to, as an artist like that part of what I would be thinking, you know, is initially it's about select a single target audience, right, and sometimes, as in art, sometimes the artificial constraint is a, you know, the beginning of creativity right so do you think to see like are you back in swindon now?
you said are you yeah yeah, yeah, you're back in Swindon and you're you know that whole region kind of thing, bristol, swindon you start to think you don't need to be the biggest artist in the world. And if you't need to be the biggest artist in the world, and if you are going to be the biggest artist in the world, the most renowned, with the widest reach, you've got to be the biggest artist in Swindon. Yeah, just by default, right, and it's much easier to have an impact in Swindon than it is to to have it in all of the UK, for instance.
Yeah because you're constrained by reach is often, if you don't have it, it's often constrained by the financial ability to buy it. You can buy reach yeah, you buy exposure, but better thing is to find people who have reach assets that they don't know and it could be like a restaurant you know, like a local restaurant. There's one of my new favorites. Are you familiar with max colo?
Steve: no, I've never heard of him.
Dean: okay, so he's a designer and what he's what he's doing is he's creating these, these things where he'll redesign signs or things on the the street. Signs are things on the street and without anybody asking him, kind of thing, and he puts them up on his site. So it's kind of. I'll show you one of them because it's pretty funny. So, yeah, the guy's name is Max Kolo and let me share the screen and you can see what I'm talking about. It's just like, anonymously, he's going and doing this Share. So there we go.
City without anyone asking me to, on the community bulletin board. Here I discovered man with van, Just a neighborhood man trying to turn his van into a side hustle. He's offering up his help with van-related tasks in the neighborhood. I respect it. However, his design feels a bit. It's kind of cold and mysterious. After all, he is a man in a van, so to help him come across as a bit more friendly and trustworthy, we're going to use playful illustration and some design that feels a bit more professional. I took inspiration from vintage label designs and made simple, bold choices that transform man With Van into a brand that's established. Look at how much more inviting this man and his van are. I don't know who man With Van is, but now he's got a whole brand identity.
Steve: That's so clever it's great right.
Dean: Like this is my day two of redesigning signs with nobody asking yeah and the whole yeah.
Steve: Sorry, carry on.
Dean: No, but I think that that level of like just doing it and getting it out there, not waiting for permission, yeah, it's kind of an interesting thing that you wonder. You know you think about who in. What's the population of swindon, by the way?
Steve: quite big. It's about 220 000, so it's a big place.
Dean: Yeah, so you know you start to look at that as who's got reach there, you know where, where are all of the people? That's kind of and looking for opportunities to exchange those things Like putting. If you look at what your art is, how many people are there? Like you in Swindon, would you say, is there an art scene in Swindon?
Steve: yeah, there is one, god, it's hard to say, there's, I would say a couple of hundred and there's probably more, but from who I know, like in the kind of people I meet and everything at your studio there's yeah there's about 25 at the studio and then, yeah, there's, there's a good community, yeah, and a lot of artists make use of exhibiting in pubs and stuff like that.
So it's unfortunately there's not an art gallery, then how it's? It closed down and they're reopening inside the council offices, which is I find bizarre. So they've got like a million pound lowry picture. Lowry's another one who inspires me because it's kind of like sort of like stick figures. He documented like Northern working class scenes and stuff up in I can't remember where it is, near Manchester. But yeah, they've got all these great paintings and they're just using their own civic offices, which is weird.
So a lot of people being creative with street art and exhibiting in cafes and pubs and stuff like that. But I had this idea, you see, like we were talking about before. You see street art on walls and it's just paint on walls. But what I wanted to do was have a framed art exhibition outside which is there permanently. So it's like wooden frames fixed to the like, drilled to the wall and like have a row. Um, so that's something. Yeah, that's something I am going to do. It's just one of the ideas I've written down like something that will catch people's attention and it's not the usual kind of street art, but it's.
Dean: It's like combining gallery and street art, literally yeah and that's kind of the thing that I bet, if you just look around swindon, there's probably those are what I would call reach assets, right, that there's probably a lot of those things, that there's probably a lot of blank walls. That would be perfect for that and it's kind of an interesting. It's kind of an interesting thing whether you did it kind of. You know, part of what might be an interesting thing is creating a collective. You think about back in the dayaries that maybe you collectively get together and create those reach assets and your stature individually goes up as the the group goes up.
Steve: Yeah, that's funny. You should say that because we, when we did this mural it's around the corner from me actually we called ourselves the red cliff collective. So it was a couple of people I knew from the studio and then we put a message on facebook to get low to our local artists that we knew between us and we all joined together and painted this. So it's called red cliff collective because the street was is red cliff streetiffe Street and we got on BBC News and stuff, which was really cool. We contacted Points West, which is a regional news programme for all of the South West. So it would be kind of cool like doing something a couple of years later as as a collective and saying that it was us who did it.
I think, that'd be quite cool. Even if not everyone joins, we're just get a piece from each of us and put it out somewhere. Yeah, I think that'd be quite cool, actually. Yeah.
Dean: Yeah, because that, that, I think, is where the that's where the thing comes up. You know, is that you look at? I mean comes up, you know, is that you look at? This is going to sound weird, but I don't know if you're a hip-hop fan, but I mean yes wu-tang yes, wu-tang clan my one of my favorites?
Steve: yeah, so you think?
Dean: about. Wu-tang clan was really a hip-hop collective, yeah, and that that's kind of the whole way that they approached that was realizing that they can get an variety as as a group and then individually, yeah, out from that foundation, you know, and that's kind of I don't know, there might be an interesting, you know the. Did you see the wu-tang documentary?
Steve: oh no, I haven't seen that actually, no, okay is it good?
Dean: it's very good and I think if you were to look at it, watch it. Yeah, a collective approach of thinking you, because all these artists, they're everybody in the collective in swindon, in all parts of the world that are trying to think about how they can make a mark in the art world or make the leap to at least having art be their livelihood and their life, kind of thing.
Steve: Yeah.
Dean: Is a. There's an opportunity there to put yourself in the position of organizing the collective. Put yourself in the position of organizing the collective. Everybody's waiting to be selected, for somebody to take the. I think there's some buddy that has to appoint me to this position but, all art is self-appointment you know, there's nobody stopping you from you know, from doing whatever you want. Just your vision is what's what's you know?
the limiting thing, you know, is vision and belief. That that's kind of the the thing, cause you've got the capability you've got, you know you've got it. So it's really just a matter of that's why you know, in the past it it was really there's a lot of parallels to art and music in that. In the past there was kind of the gallery you know system that you had to get in a gallery that somebody shows your work, so that, yeah, you get aware. You know that people are aware of you otherwise, but it feels like there's an opportunity to take that in your own hands now you know, yeah, that is so true.
Steve: People don't rely on the big record labels and artists don't rely on the, the main galleries and stuff now. So, yeah, there's definitely, there is so much opportunity.
Dean: I just imagine too yeah, music is a similar thing, so complimentary, and so you know different music and right, you think in all the arts, music and writing and film and you know all of those things, to what extent that you can organize that collective like it would be very interesting. Think about the impact that you could have on a band that is starting to try and break into the music world. You know they're only the more multi-sensory things can can be yeah I think there's some real.
You know, that's an interesting thing of it having some multi-disciplinary things in the collective right where yeah, the combination of it, like you look at, getting your artwork associated with an artist, because so much of what brings the tone of how you approach music is what the cover art or the badge looks like, or the single, or what the band's aesthetic is. That that's. It's an advantage for bands if they and if they don't have it, they you know that's an opportunity for you yeah I think in that collective right to be able to align with.
Who would be the musical? What would be the sound of your art if it had a sound right? What would be the vibe? What kind of music do you listen to?
Steve: well, I'm a big fan of your playlist while you're while you're creating art I listen to a lot of hip-hop 90s hip-hop, wu-tang's my favorite, tupac snoop and all that the usual, but also a lot of time I'm listening to you know who has, who lives in winter haven here.
Dean: That was dame dash, damon dash oh really so his where I do my studio stuff, that's where his american new studios is. He bought or is buying the studio where I do all my my stuff. So I see him in there all the time.
Steve: Oh nice right here in winter, haven you know? Yeah, I also listen to a lot of devo, which is have you had a devo? Devo 80s.
Dean: Of course, yeah, yeah.
Steve: I've only discovered them like a couple of years ago, amazing. Yeah, whippet and B-52s as well. Oh wow. Loving them they seemed. I've got a playlist between the two bands and they seem to really fit together. Yeah, and Keith Haring used to listen to. One time he listened to Rock Lobster on repeat for like six hours or something when he was painting. I don't think I could quite do that, but right. But yeah, I love these ideas.
They're more up my street than just kind of hoping for the best with things and like yeah I don't know, because I, like I said, I set up this mural project and there was this blank wall and I I made that happen. I got the funding for it from the local community, it didn't cost a lot of money, had a buzz around it and that I enjoyed every minute of the whole process in it. I just I feel like I need to look at other ways where I can apply this locally. And the restaurant thing is really cool because I can design things as well, so I can make all the menus and it's not going to cost the restaurant very much as well, and it will have a big impact locally and yeah.
I think that would be cool yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.
Dean: And then imagine, you know, doing posters or things for local bands or putting together a music festival. Even right, organizing will be the equivalent music collective that's in swindon. There, you know, is putting some organization to things, creating a context that's bigger than the individual yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
Steve: That makes me think I don't. I don't really know any local bands or anything, so it gives me an opportunity to look into that, because I'm sure there's some awesome people about. That reminds me there was one guy. This guy called Lee Knott, who's played at Glastonbury. Last year he's done quite well in his career and we actually painted his suit which he wore at Glastonbury. So he wore this old pinstripe suit and the Redcliffe Collective painted him. He wore this gas mask and we just like spray painted him all over. That was quite a cool thing. Little things like that, like recording that and putting it on Instagram and stuff like the guy did with the, with the man in the van thing just little things like that making the most of the local town.
And yeah, like you were saying there, you can be the best artist in the world, but make a mark on where you are first yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, yeah yeah, it just really inspires me because there's there's a lot of opportunity here and it's not like if you're going to london, it's kind of massively competitive because there's obviously a lot more people and there's a lot more people who have studied art and it seems like there's this kind of wide open here a bit more, yeah yeah, and I think that's it right.
Dean: This is not looking at like. I think that there's. I think embracing this intersection of art and commerce is a is a great place to come from, as opposed to really positioning in a in a way that requires patrons or that it's like coming from a patron of the arts, type of thing is yeah it's, you know.
Yeah, it's a different. It's a different come from you know, but I think there's something to really make to really use and understand the advantage of that really great art can bring to really great businesses, really great things. It's what makes the really great businesses great yeah, and they're artistic athletic, you know yeah, yeah yeah absolutely yeah, I love that idea and they, they, their sketch has the case study, isn't there? It's like what more.
Steve: I don't even have to prove it.
Dean: They've got a top london restaurant that yeah, like if you're is somebody as a, it almost like elevates things that allow like a chef, especially if you go like going in that michelin star world of trying to be a world-renowned chef. That part of it is the. You know, the food in many cases has to stand alone, but the ones that really rise to the top if you really look at everything, it's the whole aesthetic around everything as well.
It's not just the, the food it's the, the whole experience of the food which is the location and the architecture and the surroundings, and you know, I think that kind of stuff is really artistic expression at its best level. I think there's the most opportunity for artistic expression within commerce.
Steve: Yeah yeah, absolutely yeah. It's made me think getting the commerce side sorted in terms of my website and everything, and then going to do work on these community based art projects is something I really enjoy, and then I'm not having to sell to anyone people might see my work in the restaurant, or that's what it is, yeah, and then buy it off me.
Dean: It's like, yeah, all right and yeah, I think that's a amazing thing. If I look at Swindon, you know, if I look at it's so inexpensive to put art out to, to do even on facebook as an example, to just put a bubble around swindon and to have.
Imagine pairing the collective art with a local song, like with a song from a band, and just having it on a exposure loop around, you know, to build an audience on on Facebook. Yeah, like two or $3 CPMs, meaning you know for two or three. You know you're getting in front of people for you know two cents or dissolving into the next one, into the next one.
It's kind of like a roaming gallery. That's something that I think could be a really interesting thing. You can build an audience of people who watch the the whole thing, and what a great exposure for yeah I love that yeah, and that's very inexpensive right yeah, yeah, I've also thought of doing creating a.
Steve: You know like we've been talking about people paint on walls, people do graffiti and stuff covertly and or do big pieces like well, like banksy obviously. But I thought the idea of do it, creating some kind of statue. I like the idea of fixing a statue to to the pavement so it's permanent, and then documenting that I really, I really like that, if you went around swindon yeah found these places.
Dean: That would be perfect for the, for the frames that you're talking about, the things you could put together a, you know, a walking tour or a tour of all of the, the spots you know. Another artist I really love is tom sacks. Do you know, are you familiar with tom? No, you're gonna love him he's fantastic. Yeah, s-a-c-h-s tom sacks um, but I just sometimes I don't know, I just have such. I love that pure creativity where is he based?
Steve: is he american? New york?
Dean: yeah, yeah so all right. Well, how did all this land, what's your talked about a lot there, what?
Steve: do you? Yeah, a lot there. What do you, yeah, your thoughts on? Well, it wasn't quite what I expected I I imagine we'd go through the profit activators and stuff, but it's actually worked out better than I expected. So because, like you said, it's not, it's not the same as offering a, a service like an interior designer or something it's it's. It's very different and the ideas you've you've shared with me and just chatting with you about art and stuff has been brilliant and you seem to know, know your stuff, not that it's about knowledge, but you have an appreciation of art yeah and I'm excited about trying these, these things out, and it's taken the pressure off.
Like I've signed up to courses, like you've probably well, I don't know if you've seen them on instagram like there's so many popping up about how to sell your art now and you go through a series of like training videos and it's just find it really boring and it's I'd rather be creative with the promotion of my art as well.
That's part of the excitement of it. So, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna. What I'm taking away from it is this this restaurant idea, taking it from sketch thinking of maybe a restaurant that's kind of struggling to get people in a bit, making a kind of mutual beneficial thing that's creating a buzz and, yeah, helping the local community and stuff like that yeah yeah and yeah, it's just got me thinking more about not trying to directly sell my artwork, but have it there available, so people, if people want to come and buy it, they can sell itself, that's the thing about artists.
Dean: You just need to be, get it seen yeah because then people that are drawn to it will, and you've got it for sale that's the great, that's the great thing you know yeah if so, people who want to go and follow you. It's slart L A R T dot M E slartme yeah, or Steve light.
Steve: And that's the same on Instagram is at slartme as well. Yeah, I haven't posted much on there, but you've re-inspired me to to start documenting these things. I do that guy, he posted those. The man on a van thing was really cool.
Dean: I have to have a have a look if anybody wants to follow on instagram is max colo hey yeah, that's it yeah and, yeah, it's fun to just watch, like I I I'm very attracted to the way that he approaches those things, you know, and I just think there's something you know fantastic and inspiring about it.
Steve: So yeah, I'm excited.
Dean: I mean. So next year, 2025 june, I'm going to be back in london. Oh, nice love to see you again, yeah that'd be great. Maybe I'll come and do the the walking tour of the swindon collective you know, oh yeah, it's only an hour on the train from london yeah, that'd be great.
Steve: Maybe go to an art gallery or something that'd be cool that's one of my funniest train moments ever.
Dean: got off the train in bristol, yeah, I got in a black cab and I asked the guy said is there, where can I get a massage? Right, like think the spa or something like that. And he turns back to me and he goes well, an erotic massage.
Steve: I knew you were going to say that.
Dean: I was thinking like a spa, you know, like a real, I would just thought, you know, an erotic massage.
Steve: Yeah, there's a lot of those about in Bristol, I think I bet.
Dean: That was his first reaction, his first thought. So funny.
Steve: Did you notice their accent? Then Can as an american, can you?
oh can you notice the strong accent.
Dean: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah it was. It was great all right well, it's been fantastic. I really it was good to reconnect with you. I'd love to see that you're thriving, you know thank you, yeah, I really appreciate it and I can't wait to see what you do with all of this.
Steve: Yeah, me too. I'm raring to go. I'm going to get my notepad out and jot a few things down and, yeah, watch the space.
Dean: Yeah.
Steve: Thank you so much, Dean.
Dean: Awesome.
Steve: Thanks a lot. Okay, good to see you, you too. Bye-bye.